Iran Leaders: The Coming is Upon Us – Israel Shall be Destroyed! (Watch the Video)

Written by Reza Kahlili on March 28th, 2011

Several months ago I was informed by my contacts in the Iranian Revolutionary Guard that the Basij had started a project that had the approval of the Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei and the Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. The purpose of the project was to inform Muslims across the globe of the immediate coming of the last Islamic messiah. The Iranian leaders, now more than ever, feel that all the stars are aligned for such event.

Ever since the Iranian Revolution of 1979, the Islamic rulers of Iran have declared themselves representatives of God on Earth, believing their mission is to pave the way for the reappearance of the last messiah, the Shiites 12th Imam Mahdi.

Their belief is based on the centuries old Hadith by Prophet Mohammad and his descendants, who have provided clear guidance as to the timing of The Coming.

According to the Hadith in the age of The Coming, a revolution takes place in Iran. This is a key sign indicating that the reappearance is near and serves as the initial preparation in the worldwide movement for The Coming of the last messiah. Based on this belief, the leaders of Iran see it as their duty to prepare the ground for The Coming. One of the most important events to securing the reappearance of the last Messiah, as called for in the Hadith, is the annihilation of Israel and conquering Beitol Moghadas (Jerusalem). They state with conviction that Islam will soon conquer the world and all infidels will be destroyed.

The pursuit of nuclear bombs by the radicals ruling Iran is directly connected to this belief, as war, chaos, and lawlessness must engulf the world to pave the way for Imam Mahdi’s reappearance.

This movie has been produced in Iran by an organization called “Conductors of The Coming” in collaboration with the Iranian president’s office and the Basij (Iranian paramilitary force). Also reports indicate that Esfandiar Rahim Mashaei, President Ahmadinejad’s top adviser and chief of staff, was directly involved with this project. The movie was completed a few months ago and recently screened for the high clerics by the Iranian president’s office with one of its high ranking official analyzing it.

Mashaei reflects the Iranian leaders’ belief very clearly:

Therefore let us shout out loud that The Coming is soon and that evil should be fearful. We live with these thoughts every day and our lives are filled with The Coming of the last Imam. That human will reappear and fill the world with justice and establish his promised governance on earth. The very world has witnessed too much bloodshed of the innocent for others to build their palaces.  The very world is filled with shouts for justice. The innocent and the oppressed are losing their lives to world powers.  It is in this very world where the oppressors rule and this world that Allah will command the last Imam to appear and forever put an end to injustice. At that time the world will belong to the righteous.

Currently this movie is being distributed throughout the Basij and Revolutionary Guards’ bases. The producers are in the middle of translating it into Arabic with the purpose of mass distribution throughout the Middle East. Their intention is to incite further uprisings with the hopes of motivating Arabs to overthrow U.S. backed governments with the final goal of the annihilation of Israel and Allah’s governance of the world!

Also see:

PajamasMedia: (PJM Exclusive) Iran’s Supreme Leader Declared the Mythical Figure in End of Times

PajamasMedia: Exposure of Movie Predicting Shiite Messiah Causes Turmoil Within Iranian Regime

Pajamas Media:Iranian Rulers, Believing Pre-Messianic Destruction Is Imminent, Make Film To Prepare Muslims.

CBN-700 Club:Iranian Video Says Mahdi is ‘Near’

Newsmax:Iran Film: Iran Plans to Conquer Israel, World

Frontpage Magazine:Iran’s End Times Documentary

The 700 club with Pat Robertson: Reza Kahlili’s revelation of the Iranian movie and the reaction by the Iranian regime.

Glen Beck – FOX: Iranian Regime Preparing for 12th Imam?
Interview with Reza Kahlili on the Iranian video promising the end of time.

Watch the video: The Coming is Upon Us:


505 Comments so far ↓

  1. Greg says:

    WE don’t like it when you show people burning American Flags.

    • Frank says:

      Oh, ok…lets pretend these things don’t happen. Let’s all sail away into your righteous narcissistic fantasy “Greg”. These things happen everyday..the innocent people in every country don’t like it when other countries come blow up their children and homes…but it still happens. So go crawl into a little corner..cry about it and then snap out of it..douchebag.

      • John says:

        Oh, but it’s fine for them to but bombs on their children and send them off to be blown up in the name of Allah(praised be his name etc. etc, etc.).

      • kim says:


        • keith says:

          The anti-christ is good. The anti-christ brings forth the christ which means peace and love and brotherhood. The jews are the devil as jesus said in john 8:44 and the anti-christ is set forth to bring about change and peace. Hitler and napoleon were the first two anti-christs and they were just a warm-up for what is in store for the evil, the jews. The anti-christ is good for the gentiles and all those who are good, christians muslims etc. but the anti-christ is not liked by the evil ones, the jews.

          • Andy says:

            The Jews are not the Devil, Lucifer is the Devil. He has many helpers from all walks of life. First place to look is Socialist/Communist/Progressives. Millions upon millions have been killed for these causes.

            • Cary says:

              While I agree with this sentiment, for the most part, I think it’s worthwhile to note that “death” is not synonymous with “evil,” at least according to the Christian perspective.

              I absolutely believe that the regimes you mention were evil, but the deaths were not the actual goal. Rather, the deaths were “aids” to help the tyrants overwhelm and repress the remaining citizenry, pushing them into the way of life which these tyrants wanted.

              Lucifer doesn’t want dead believers. Those are souls which are lost to him forever. He wants believers dead only because living believers can turn other living people into believers as well… while fear of death can prevent many of those same people from ever becoming believers.

              Lucifer wants dead disbelievers… because those are souls which he can claim as his own.

              Lewis, in “The Screwtape Letters,” described how hell views human souls… “primarily as food.” I’ve always been fond of that explanation… it’s the only thing that makes everything make sense.

              Popular fiction has misled people into believing that they get to “choose a side” in a great war between Heaven and Hell… as if they’ll become “warriors on Hell’s side” if they so choose… and obviously, making the ludicrious assumption that Hell (herein used to describe the forces of Lucifer and so forth, but not in the literary sense… a cave with fire or whatever… and not in the sense I believe that REAL Hell will exist at the end (total separation from God, losing all the positive effects that even the most anti-God people on Earth simply take for granted).

              You see, it makes no difference as to why that soul makes it to hell. Hell is just as pleased with a atheist (or as Lewis said, a “materialist”) or a mystic (as Lewis said, “magicians.”) Even many “religious” (but not faithful) people will find themselves, likely to their own surprise, in separation from God after their own judgment.

              Lucifer undoubtedly most enjoys it when a soul (which is, really, a PERSON) is denied to God, and he undoubtedly despises most when a soul goes to join God (what we call Heaven).

              Death itself isn’t the greatest evil… it’s only a tool, useful to Lucifer when it helps him to capture more “food” for Hell’s banquet table, but hateful to him when it results in his “food animals” being forever denied to him.

              This is why Christians do not fear death. And also why we say that Jesus Christ CONQUERED DEATH. Not because he was resurrected (he was, after all, not the first resurrection… recall, for example the story of Lazarus). But because he transformed death from something to be dreaded to something, for those who believe, to be anticipated.

              Don’t get me wrong… Christians are not permitted to SEEK death. But this isn’t because we fear it… rather, it’s because we have work we’re commanded to do in this life. We have an obligation to try to save as many of our fellow souls as possible.

              But a Christian who takes risks, and dies as a result, trying to save others is far more in accordance with the precepts of Christianity than those “lukewarm” Christians-in-name-only who attend church but don’t want to “rock the boat” or so forth.

              Death isn’t the end… it’s only the transition to the real life we’ll experience for the remainder or eternity. And we get to choose which starting point we get for that existence… total separation from God (chaos, darkness, fear, loneliness, hopelessness, rage, and anger), or total communion with God (joy, community, love, intellectual stimulation, companionship, and peace).

              • jstan442 says:

                best explanation of what it is to be a believer i have ever heard–bravo!!

              • Vic says:

                Very well put, I couldn’t have said it better myself. Amen and Amen.

              • Linda says:

                ? It’s appointed onto ALL men to die and then the judgement,”for example the story of Lazarus).” Jesus was not the first, but He’s the ony one who has died resurrected and remains alive at the right hand of God in power and glory. His blood was not cursed as Adam’s-future generations, being begotten by God in the flesh of a virgin(of the lineage of David). All must be of Faith and put off mortality for immortality as rapture/caught up or die as appointed at some time. Jesus as God became God in the flesh and conquered death by being free from All sin and death could not keep Him! The judgement of sin =death to both body and soul. Other resurrected could not save us as they were born in sin through Adam’s curse and live in sin because of that cursed flesh. Even when we are saved we are not entirely free of sinning, but imputed with God’s righteouness(counted as righteous because of Grace through Faith a FREE gift to all who would believe). It’s all in the blood and satan hates that and has tried to corrupt the human race since Adam. Note:(Nephilim & Transhumanism on the rise/tampereing with man’s DNA)Some call it by Alien abductions=really fallen ones back at it again as prophecised “as in the days of Noah” when Satan tried to spoil the blood so the messiah could not be born, no human DNA would be left unspoiled. So who’s inspiring our scientist?

              • Chris.Curran. says:

                Cary – Great explantion if you are a believer in some kind of God or other,another question that still has’nt been answered is,Why do all Governments in every Country on this Planet still deny the existance of other Beings from other Planets?? – you know why?? Well when people are soaked in their Religion they are soaked with FEAR,and as long as they can keep the masses in FEAR they can CONTROL them,thats the main reason they won’t admit to the existance of other Beings,one of the first Questions People would ask them is, Have you seen a GOD or Supeiror Being?? and they won’t have a Bloody clue what you are talking about,while the Public are held in a continued state of FEAR their Governments can CONTROL them,and thats what is happening all the World over – wake up,and smell the Brown Stuff,- THERE IS NO GOD.!!!

                • Linda says:

                  No one(well some doz0 deny “beings” they know these beings are fallen angels (there is also God’s angels/messengers and they are observing)they may also be seen sometimes who knows which are evil and which are God’s? The bible says we may be entertaing anels unaware! The abductions are fallen angels and they are implanting a metalic(unknown metal) chip that changes the DNA=as in the days of Noah/becoming Nephilim! You just think they are aliens from other planets, more like from another dimension through a portal!

                  Also anti-Christ means another or instead of. The madi fits the anti-Christ description!!!! He will come out of chaos through a portal most likely!!

                • Cary says:

                  That was a truly fascinating note, there, Chris… full of odd non-sequitors and the like, and largely off-topic to the conversation being held here (and thus merely either a distraction or an attempted “troll.”)

                  How do you go from “Governments not acknowledging alien life” (which, for the record, is NOT the position of any government I’m aware of… nobody has claimed that “no life exists anywhere else” as far as I’m aware, and there’s certainly no RELIGIOUS argument (or at least no Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Taoist, or Zoroastrian argument… for that matter, pretty much nobody but the Muslims outright deny alien life, do they?) to that end.

                  You conclude, rather stupidly, that if alien life were to arrive here and speak to us openly, they’d “reveal the truth” (which, of course, “must be” what you, personally, happen to believe, albeit without any evidence whatsoever).

                  But what would you say if alien life arrived and DID hold a position on the universe which is more in line with the so-called “religious” perspective? How SCARED would YOU BE?

                  Yes, I saw the movie “Paul.” It’s annoying when people less intelligent than you try to talk down to you… which is what that flick was doing, the whole time. And, it seems, what you’re trying to do now.

                  You, Chris, want to believe that “THERE IS NO GOD.” Fine. That’s your choice, based purly and solely upon FAITH. You do not “know” that there is no God. You BELIEVE it… and only because it’s what you WANT TO BELIEVE.

                  The “fear” you believe that we who accept the existence of God will fear if we’re proven wrong… will never happen. If you’re right… we’ll never know. But if we’re right, and you’re wrong… you’re in for quite a surprise.

                  That’s why some folks are so dedicated to the idea of “enlightened alien beings”… they’re sort of a “God figure substitute” for those who want to deny the existence of God.

                  For the record, I’m a believer in God. I also am a big believer that the universe is a very, very big place… and there’s no logic whatsoever in assuming that, out of this entire universe, life would exist only on this one little spec of dust.

                  That said, the likelihood of regular “alien visitors” to Earth requires a bit of MAGIC… something that there’s no scientific basis behind whatsoever. That thing is “faster than light propulsion,” which is almost entirely the stuff of science fiction, and as far as REAL science is concerned, has no basis whatsoever.

                  SETI has never found anything… which means that either there are aliens who are ALL “smarter and better than us” and don’t want to be found, or are all less far along than we are and can’t be found.

                  So… do I believe aliens have visited us? If so, I would assume it was a very, very, very rare occurance. Most “alien visitors” are, clearly, false. Whoever, or whatever, is behind them is another matter altogether.

                  But I absolutely believe that the universe is just full of life… of various forms, many of which we can’t even imagine. And I’d say that the overwhelming majority of them will share certain common views about how the universe works with we who live on Earth.

                  So… again, I’ll ask… how would YOU respond if, the first time we have a public “first contact,” you were to discover that the aliens believe in a God who is, evidently, the same one we believe in?

                  There’s no more reason, right now, to believe that they’ll declare “there is no God” than that they’ll declare “We know that God’s Son visited your planet in person a couple of thousand years ago.”

                  Anything above and beyond that is merely wishful thinking on your part.

                  • Chris.Curran. says:

                    Carey – I did’nt need to go far down your reply to come to my first objection in what you say,you said there is no evidence of Alien life,well show me any evidence of there being a God,there is none,all you have are Books written by Man,not a God but Man Himself,ALL these Religious Books were written by Man,and just look what it’s done to the Muslims.There is NO evidence that a God existed in any shape or form,only what somebody wrote in a Book Centuries ago what was relivent to them at that time,and none of them apply in this modern time we live in now,Jesus and Allah were quick to pick up on the fact that if you captured the empty Brain,you could fill it up with anything,and convince them about anything,it’s not really hard to work out,why do you think Jesus was Crucified?? because he was stealing somebody elses thunder,and that person was loosing control,so they had him killed striking FEAR into the Masses,moral being-”this is what will happen to you if you listen to anyone else but ME”thus striking FEAR into the crowd,so he could control them,nobody on this Planet can tell me there is a God,because there is no Physical evidence.

                    • Cary says:

                      Okay, Chris… let’s try this again.

                      You claim that you found an “objection my my reply” in that there’s no physical evidence of God’s existence, any more than there is of alien life.

                      The funny thing is that you’re so dedicated to your position that you can’t see basic facts right in front of you. The fact is, this is not an “objection” to my point, IT WAS MY POINT.


                      You want to pretend that you, as an atheist, are supported by “science” and “fact” and so forth, but you are not. You believe what you believe because it’s what you choose to believe. Your position has no more, and no less, “fact” or “evidence” behind it than any other “faith-based belief system” does.

                      So, do you still consider that an “objection” to my point, Chris?

                      Now, you claim that there is “no evidence of God in any way, shape, or form.” Well, from a strict, scientific perspective, that’s true… so the only “scientifically reliable” position on the matter is agnosticism. (NOT ATHEISM)

                      But while there is no hard scientific evidence proving it, there’s plenty of personal, subjective reason… I believe in God because I have experienced God in my life. But I can’t give you any “hard numbers” to objectively prove this to you.

                      Now, if God were to just make Himself directly apparent to everyone… everyone would believe, of course. Even people who are disinclined to follow “goodness” (which is, in the end, just choosing to follow the rules that God set up when he created the universe).

                      The point is that God doesn’t want “tin soldiers” who follow mindlessly, or out of fear. He wants willing followers who CHOOSE to do good and choose to try to reject evil (which is just disobedience to God’s rules). Not because we get “cookies” for doing so, or because we’re afraid of punishment, but because we WANT TO. That’s the core tenet, in the end, of Christian belief.

                      And, of course, this inevitably means that some folks will choose to disregard and disobey the “rules of God” which are written indelibly on their soul… what we often refer to as “an innate sense of right and wrong” or as “our conscience” or whatever.

                      All of us know these “rules,” yet not one of us has ever fully succeeded in follow them perfectly. It’s less about how successful we are and more about how sincere we are about TRYING OUR BEST. (That’s why “forgiveness of sins” is central to Christian beliefs, by the way.)

                      Most atheists, I’ve found, do not disbelieve and disobey because of some higher moral perspective, but rather because of some lower one. Atheists, as a general rule, want to be able to pretend that they, PERSONALLY, are the “highest thing in their universe.”

                      It’s a greatly appealing belief system for narcissists, in other words. And Chris, from your writing style (and your cluelessness in comprehending what’s actually being said to you), I can tell you have no shortage of faith in yourself, huh?

                      You proceed to point out that you think that “empty brains” are required to believe. I’d gladly put my own intellectual prowess up against yours. You may think it’s witty to obliquely accuse anyone who disagrees with you of being “empty-brained,” but you simply tipped your own hand.

                      Your writing style is disjointed, by the way. Paragraph structure is also a shortcoming of your writing style. You might want to try breaking up some of those run-on sentences, as well.

                      You ask about “why was Jesus crucified?” Well, it’s not EXACTLY because of what you think it was, but you’re not as far off as you may expect me to say. Yes, the Pharisees felt that Jesus was “stealing their thunder” and “threatening their position,” and as a result they forced this issue.

                      The thing is, you, personally, seem to be one who would fall into the role the Pharisees played at that point. You are so DEDICATED to your (entirely-faith-based) belief that there is not, and cannot be, anything greater or more powerful than you, that you feel that the BELIEFS OF OTHERS who may disagree with you are a threat to your own position. A threat to your own ego, in essence.


                      Yet, here you are, out proseletyzing for your own personal belief system, denigrating those who disagree… and for what? To “save us” from something? At least Christians, and Muslims for that matter, and most other belief systems, can say with a fair degree of honesty that our efforts to convert have some degree or another of altruism.

                      But, Chris, what “altruism” do you want to claim is behind your efforts to “convert to your own belief system” here? What are you trying to “save us from,” in other words?

                      “Ignorance” is the usual answer… but I’m far less “ignorant” of these matter than you seem to be, Chris. As I said before, it’s always annoying when someone who is less informed or less intelligent than you are attempts to lecture you… as the movie “Paul” did so obnoxiously.

                      You have no real understanding of my beliefs, or of Muslim or Jewish or Taoist or Hindu or any other belief system. But, I do have a full understanding of your belief system. You might want to seriously try to reduce your own ignorance of the topic before you start trying to “save” people from your perception of their “ignorance.”

                      Atheists tend to be the least reflective, least intellectually open, most judgmental and most closed-minded people in the room. As your last sentence, above, demonstrates so clearly about you, I’m afraid.

                    • Sue says:

                      I do not understand how anyone can say with all certainty that there is no God. Physical evidence abounds! Can you not look around you and see that the universe was clearly created with order and understanding? Even to study a flower shows the glory of God, the creator. The human body with all it’s intricate systems. The earth, land masses and seas and the timing of the seasons. Such order can not be produced out of nothing. Many people claim there is no God because of all the suffering of ‘innocent’ people. We are a fallen people, everyone is guilty of sin and suffering is a result of sin. It isn’t rocket science….a simple minded person can understand the gospel. You and everyone that believes as you do, really should re- examine your standings. There are many firm believers that are so because they took it upon themselves to disprove Christianity. Lee Strobel is one such and has books explaining his research and findings. I would encourage you to do some real research. Your eternity depends on it. In the meantime, I will remember you in my prayers, and I wish for you peace and a true encounter with your Creator. He loves you and truly doesn’t require much. It take less faith to believe in God than to not believe in God. Take care Chris.

                • Kelly Foster says:

                  You are wrong . God told me I will live forever and I don’t have anything to worry about .

          • nalo says:

            Jesus was Jewish..dum dum

            • alicia says:

              You are wrong Yahwushua was a hebrew Israilite not only that this is what the Father says about those jews who are over their in our land please read. Rev 2:9, Rev 3:9, the jews are not Yah chosen people He is not comin back for them but for His people the Hebrew Israelite whom the Father Has made a convenant with, and who he only love but their is salvation for the gentile through the hebrews. Shalom

              • Alex says:

                Shalom Sister Alicia! Tell them sis! They can’t see the truth cause they all blinded by man doctrine! Shalom and may YAH be with u!

              • norm says:

                U had better read about the jews and the gentiles in the bible! Jesus Christ died for all sins including yours and he is not coming for the jews only, but the jews are his people because he is a jew also. So tell me if he is the deputy to the madi and they want jews dead why are they not talking of destroying Jesus

                • marc says:

                  God sent thousands of prophets to all mankind (close to 124k) and they all had the same message. None of them is god and none of them is better than the other. Jews are not higher than gentiles and Christians are not better than Jews. Muslims the same way as well. It’s all one message but people change it and twist it and completely oppress it. When Moses came with the message people believed but some Jews changed the scripture and revolted. When Jesus came, with the same message but with more responsibility on humans, they did not expect a child from the normal Jews that is not the wealthy and with a status to be the messiah, so they fought against him, some years past and then prophet Muhammad came with the same message but with more responsibility but still people did not want to follow. It seems the problem is not the prophets or the messengers or GOD. it’s US.

                  • Cary says:

                    Unless you’re willing to claim that all of recorded history… both the documents and statements attributed to the so-called “prophets” themselves, all the first-hand accounts of the time, and the actual historical documents… are ALL FALSE, for ALL of these “prophets,” you simply cannot make such a nonsensical statement.

                    I get it. I do. There are some people who want to believe this… it’s “wishful thinking” about how they WANT religion to be. Of course, if wishes were horses…

                    Sorry, just wishing it to be so has no effect on reality (unless you’re one of the extraordinarily gullible people who buy into Deepak Chopra’s claim that HE is the only thing in the universe which exists, and all of us are merely figments of his imagination…)

                    Jesus said this. This is not just from a single book, it is supported by irrefutable historical evidence. It was for THIS REASON that he was opposed by the pharisees and was put to death. This isn’t recorded in a single book, from a single account… no, it’s historically recorded that thousands of people at the time heard him preach this and followed him.

                    Jesus said:

                    “I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no one comes to the Father, but by me.

                    “If you had known me, you would have known my Father also: from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.”

                    The verse continues, and strengthens this point, but this is very clear. And this is central to what Jesus said during his ministry. You cannot provide any historical evidence contradictory to this, can you? But Roman legal records make it clear that everyone who followed him believed this… and these were in many, many cases those who actually heard him speak in person.

                    Jesus DID DECLARE that he was in God, and God was in Him, and that he had been with God before the world was made. He DID DECLARE that he was the ONLY WAY TO GOD. There is NO DOUBT of that.

                    To claim otherwise is to lie. Plain and simple.

                    You may believe that he was wrong… but then, you’d have to give up your effort to “appropriate” Jesus into some other form of “pantheistic” new-age religion.

                    Jesus was either a madman (who believed, falsely, that he was the only begotten Son of God), or he was a horrible, evil man (knowing that he was lying, and willfully leading people into a life where they would be scorned, imprisoned, tortured, and executed, merely for following his “false claim”), or he was EXACTLY WHO HE CLAIMED TO BE.


                    HE DIDN’T LEAVE YOU THAT OPTION.

                    HE DIDN’T INTEND TO!

                    • Dan says:

                      Finally, the TRUTH……

                    • Anne says:

                      Very clear explanation. The Biblical Jesus is The ONLY way to know God. He is the Son of the Living God. Everyone has a choice to believe it or not…but not believing it doesn’t make it not so. The truth is the truth is the truth, whether you believe it or not. Thank you.

                    • BigIrish says:

                      Peace be with you!

                    • Linda says:

                      Great job Carey!!!! Praise God, keep proclaiming Jesus. Ambassador for Christ in the Ministry of Reconciliation (2 Cor. 5:18-20) :)

                    • Chris.Curran. says:

                      You get a good response from the already converted Cary,your replies are quite lengthy,am i correct in asuming you represent some Religion at a another level other than”Follower”,if thats the case then,nobody BUT NOBODY!!is going to be allowed to give their opinion without your Quoting from some Book or other,well frankly i don’t beleive in any of these Books,and i certainly won’t allow anybody to start Preaching to me from these Books,i can live my life in a manner thats acceptable to my society,and respect my fellow man and the Law of the Land without any of your(or anybody elses)Big Book,i don’t fear any”God” because there is NO GOD,i don’t fear the UNKNOWN because i don’t know whats there,and for the record nobody else can prove there is a God,or Life after Death,so as far as i’m concerned Death is like switching a Light Off – only you can’t switch it on again,there is no afterlife,as nobody iv’e heard of has Proved it,and thats what and Lucid thinking Person would be expected to say,your Religion has gripped you to such an extent that you Preach and Quote from your Book to other People,and try to put FEAR in them,but not me Carey, i won’t allow you to try and fill my head with all this Religious nonsence,may your God go with you Carey cause i don’t have one,mainly due to his lack of involvement on this Planet,i won’t allow my head to be filled with any “Hocus-Pocus” UN-PROVEN man-written,ancient thoughts,that don’t even belong in this Century.

                    • Cary says:

                      This is a response to “Chris Curran’s” note from February 8, 2012 at 5:33 PM. “Reply” seems not to be available for that note…

                      First off.. for crying out loud, Chris, LEARN PROPER GRAMMAR. Those “run-on sentences” make your writing nearly totally illegible. But, at the same time, also almost entirely impossible to respond to directly. It’s VERY VERY POOR communications technique, and you are only demonstrating that you’re either poorly educated, or more likely, more emotionally driven than intellectually driven (which, I’ve noted, is also a very common tendency among the dedicated atheist community).


                      “You get a good response from the already converted Cary…”


                      Actually, truth, logic, and reason get a good response from everyone willing to think rather than to merely emotionally lash out, as you seem to be inclined to do.


                      “…your replies are quite lengthy…”


                      I’m a very quick typist, frankly, but I’ve typed each of my responses in “stream of consciousness” fashion. I simply take as long as required to say whatever needs to be said.


                      “…am i correct in asuming you represent some Religion at a another level other than’Follower’…”


                      Well, I’ve never used the term “follower” to describe myself at any point in my life… but in answer to your implicit question, no, I am not a member of the clergy. I am a common layman, neither very high nor very low within the church, and have no particular allegiance to any subsect of the Christian faith, but am unabashedly a believing Christian.


                      “…if thats the case then,nobody BUT NOBODY!!is going to be allowed to give their opinion without your Quoting from some Book or other…”


                      Well, it’s NOT the case, as I said before. And people can give (and have given) their opinions regularly without challenge from me.

                      And for the record, I have not been “quoting from some books.” You seem to be incapable of grasping that someone you, yourself, are in commmunication with is actually capable of writing coherently… without that writing being “quoted from a book” or so forth, huh?

                      But I will not stand by idly while someone (like you) posts nonsense, intended as nothing less than an attack on others, and on the beliefs of those others.

                      Why, Chris, did you post here in the first place? What was your motivation? You ARE here to proselytize your own personal belief system, are you not? You’re here to “tell those stupid religious people how stupid they are, and how much smarter you are,” right?


                      “…well frankly i don’t beleive in any of these Books,and i certainly won’t allow anybody to start Preaching to me from these Books…”


                      Well, you came into this conversation to “preach” your own belief. But it seems that you’re disinclined to allow others to respond in kind, huh? (Especially if they’re more effective arguers than you are!)

                      But, once again, I have neither “assaulted you” (I’m RESPONDING TO YOUR ASSAULT, bluntly stated) nor am I “reading from books” to you.

                      And, short of total suppression of freedom of expression (absolute loss of personal freedom for anyone you, personally, may happen to disagree with), how do you propose to prevent people from replying to your comments, Chris?

                      Are you, in fact, in favor of that sort of fascism?


                      “… i can live my life in a manner thats acceptable to my society,and respect my fellow man and the Law of the Land without any of your(or anybody elses)Big Book…”


                      Yes, you can. Or you can choose not to. That’s central to my own belief system, as I’ve stated quite clearly. You know, inherently, what’s right and what’s wrong, and to one extent or another, you may choose to try to conform to it, or you may choose to ignore it and do “whatever you want” instead.

                      Who, here, has said anything different?

                      But that’s not what’s happening here. You aren’t just “living your own life as you see fit” and “wanting to be left alone,” are you, Chris?

                      No, you’re actively proselytizing for your own belief system (which has, as I said before, no more scientific basis than my own, or anyone else’s). And you’re actively attacking the belief systems of others.

                      And you’re “getting up on your high horse” now over not having been given carte blanch to do whatever you want without being challenged.

                      Are you over the age of puberty, Chris? Because you’re certainly not behaving like an adult.


                      “…i don’t fear any”God” because there is NO GOD…”


                      You may not “fear any God” because you HAVE A FAITH BASED BELIEF THAT NO GOD EXISTS, but you have no basis for that belief other than that it’s what you WANT TO BELIEVE.

                      You state that as if it’s a fact. So… prove it. Provide a concise, scientifically sound proof of the non-existence of God. And, for the record, quoting from Douglas Adams’ fictional works won’t count.


                      “…i don’t fear the UNKNOWN because i don’t know whats there…”


                      That statement has no logic to it, and could mean two very different things. I’m going to assume that you mean that you’re accusing others of “fearing the unknown” because they don’t know what’s there.

                      But that’s a child’s argument. The more a person learns, the bigger the universe is in the eyes of that person. Those who see the universe in very simplistic terms are the least knowledgeable among us. The more we know, the more we realize we don’t know.

                      Everything you know is contained in a mass of biological matter contained inside your skull. On a biological basis, you do not have the ability to know even the tiniest fraction of the knowable within the universe. You, and all the rest of us, are inherently ignorant of the major portion of the nature of the universe, as a result.

                      But you, and those who you agree with, want to believe that they’re able to “know it all” and to be the “biggest thing in the universe.”

                      You’re not. Sorry.


                      “…and for the record nobody else can prove there is a God,or Life after Death…”


                      Well, on a purely scientific basis, you’re correct. But lack of positive proof is not the same as presence of a disproof. That’s basic science.

                      You reject these things, not based upon science, but rather upon PERSONAL PREFERENCE, nothing more and nothing less.


                      “so as far as i’m concerned Death is like switching a Light Off – only you can’t switch it on again…”


                      But “as far as I’m concerned” is a statement of belief, not a statement of scientific fact.

                      You can believe whatever you want to believe. And you have the right to do so. But you don’t have the right to pretend to be “scientific” when in fact you’re only promoting a different “religious perspective” based entirely upon faith in your own belief without any proof whatsoever.


                      “…there is no afterlife,as nobody iv’e heard of has Proved it…”


                      Again, lack of positive proof is NOT THE SAME THING AS POSITIVE DISPROOF.

                      That’s a basic element of all scientific rigor. But it’s clear, you lack any ability to think critically, so it’s no surprise that this is beyond your ability to grasp.


                      “…and thats what and Lucid thinking Person would be expected to say…”


                      Quite the contrary. You’re the one demonstrating your lack of lucidity and critical thinking ability here, Chris. One more time… a lack of positive proof is not the same as a positive disproof.

                      Any rational, logical, lucid thinker knows this inherently. Only a devout, emotionally-driven follower of an unthinking belief system (such as your own, “Secular Humanism”) fails to grasp this basic foundational concept of all intellectual inquiry.


                      “…your Religion has gripped you to such an extent that you Preach and Quote from your Book to other People,and try to put FEAR in them…”


                      My “religion” doesn’t “grip me” at all. My BELIEF is something I’ve arrived at through a lifetime of critical thinking, observation, and personal experience.

                      And, again, YOU CAME TO THIS CONVERSATION IN ORDER TO PREACH, CHRIS. You just are now very annoyed that not everyone has bowed down and worshiped at the “altar of Chris,” it seems. No, not everyone agrees with you. And that, evidently, hurts your ego.

                      I have no desire to put fear into anyone. In fact, Christianity is a far, far more HOPEFUL belief system than your own. You, Chris, have no “hope” whatsoever, do you? (Which, of course, allows you to “do whatever I want, whenever I want,” which is why your belief system appeals to you so much, I assume.)


                      “…but not me Carey, i won’t allow you to try and fill my head with all this Religious nonsence…”


                      You have the right to walk away from the conversation at any point. You had the right to never enter the conversation in the first place. You have the right to ignore contrary viewpoints. You do NOT have the right to denigrate and attack others, and the beliefs of those others, with impunity, and to be “worshipped” for doing so.

                      No, Chris, you really don’t.


                      “…may your God go with you Carey cause i don’t have one…”


                      Actually, as far as I’m concerned, you most certain DO have one. But you choose, out of personal egotism, to reject Him.

                      If you don’t personally believe in the existence of New York City, that doesn’t mean that New York City doesn’t exist, either. (or, if you’ve been to NYC, you can substitute any other location on Earth where you, PERSONALLY, have never visited and thus have no personal knowledge of)


                      “…mainly due to his lack of involvement on this Planet…”


                      Ah, but for those who pay close attention, who study history, who study science (TRUE science, not “pseudo-science” as promulgated by many would-be “societal transformers”), and who pay attention, can see not only that there is clear evidence, but that the level of involvement is as much as it could be while permitting us to retain our FREEDOM OF CHOICE and our FREE WILL.

                      God could act directly, but that would take away both of those things… and, for now at least, clearly he feels that the costs associated with providing us with the ability to choose our own path are outweighed by the benefits.


                      “…i won’t allow my head to be filled with any “Hocus-Pocus” UN-PROVEN man-written,ancient thoughts,that don’t even belong in this Century.


                      Two points…

                      First off, you HAVE allowed your head to be filled with unproven, man-written ideas. That applies every bit as much to your own belief system, “Secular Humanism,” as it applies to Islam or to Catholicism or to any other philosophical/religious perspective.

                      Second, your statement about “not belonging in this century” is evidence that you have no grasp of actual history. Despite the promulgation by Secular Humanist “clergy” of the idea that “religion is the old view, our view is the new, progressive one,” both perspectives have existed throughout all of human history, in approximately the same percentages.

                      There were just as many secular humanists in ancient Egypt, or in ancient Babylon, or in ancient Rome, as there are today, proportionally speaking. And the arguments then were exactly the same as the arguments today.

                      Stop listening to propaganda and start studying REAL history.

                      Your argument, being based upon a lie in the first place, falls pretty flat as a result, doesn’t it?

                  • TRUTH says:

                    I am happy to inform you of the TRUTH Marc; ONE IS BETTER, HE IS BY HIS VERY NATURE GOD. JESUS

                    REV 22:16-21 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”
                    The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.

                    I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll.
                    And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.

                    He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.”

                    Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

                    The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s people. Amen.

                  • jstan442 says:

                    Jesus came and fulfilled the law-He did not come to change it-mohammed is a man who during his travels got the wrong impression that Christians were worshiping mary (catholics do and that is wrong)-anyway he (without understanding who Christ was and what He did thru His death and resurrection) started his own religion that has everything wrong! mohammed will be in hell along with satan and everyone else who does not have faith in Jesus!!sorry to burst your bubble

                    • Cary says:

                      I was no more familiar with Islam than most Americans, until I served as an intelligence officer during the first Gulf War. I needed to understand this new enemy, and I started studying the culture of the region as a result. I’ve never stopped.

                      Knowing the history of Mohammed is really very useful for understanding the nature of Islam.

                      Mohammed was orphaned, and went to live with a (relatively, by then-current terms) wealthy uncle. This uncle was an animal herder, and he put young Mohammed to work in the fields, tending the animals.

                      Mohammed never learned to read or write. This is not atypical for the era, of course… less than 1/5 of all people had written language skills in that part of the world at that time. But it’s relevant, because Mohammed never actually wrote anything… he “related” his stories to others, who wrote down what he told them. This is one way in which Jewish and Christian scriptures are different from Muslim ones… both the Torah and the Bible (which includes major elements of the Torah) are written first-hand, while everything in the Koran is second-hand, by someone who was never able to “proofread” anything.

                      Mohammed claimed to have been visited, while tending his herd, by an “Angel of Light.” This “angel” supposedly identified itself as Gabriel. Throughout Mohammed’s life, he continued to claim to be visited, regularly, by this “Angel of Light.” He claimed that his religious doctrines were communicated to him, from God, through this “Angel of Light.”

                      It is of some interest that Lucifer was described as an “Angel of Light” in all prior Abrahamic records…

                      At first, Mohammed claimed to be the “fulfillment” of the other two Abrahamic faiths. But by doing so, he inherently contradicted the core tenets of Christianity (claiming that Jesus was only the “harbinger” of Mohammed). And contradicting many of the tenets of Judaism as well. He made a clear effort to co-opt both faiths… and argued in favor of peaceful “merging” of the faiths.

                      This, however, did not meet with strong success, and he became frustrated. And worst of all, his attempts to be more “forceful” in his efforts were met by a strong counter-reaction by the Sultan of Mecca, the city where he lived.

                      So… Mohammed, who had built a small but dedicated following, attempted to have the Sultan and his court assassinated, effectively staging a coup so that he could take power.

                      Mohammed miscalculated, however, and his forces were decimated. The Sultan of Mecca declared a death sentence on Mohammed and he, and his remaining followers, fled Mecca.

                      The band fled to a city to the northeast, called Medina. At Medina, Mohammed reconstituted his group, and recruited from the various bands of nomads who visited the oasis at Medina to resupply.

                      This matters because you will often hear stories about the “pre-Medina” and “post-Medina” versions of Islam. The “pre-Medina” version is more peaceful, the later “post-Medina” version is far more militant and violent. These two “phases” of Islam are very much contradictory in many ways, but since the Koran states that the Koran is “faultless,” and cannot be questioned (under penalty of death), this has allowed many Muslims to live relatively “peaceable” lives, while still technically being in compliance with Islam.

                      The Mohammed of Medina was exceptionally hateful and violent. It was here where he took his 8-year-old wife, and it was here where he changed the doctrines of Islam to allow pedophilia (including pedophilia of adult men with young “beautiful boys”… which is why Michael Jackson was able to be welcomed in when he converted to Islam).

                      It was at this point that Mohammed declared that all Jews must be killed, and all Christians must be conquered and forcibly converted. It was here that he declared that capture of a territory owned by others makes it a PERMANENT capture, and any attempt to reclaim the captured land would be treated as an “hostile occupation of Allah’s land.” It has here that he declared that all symbols of other religious faiths, or other forms of government other than “submission to Allah” (the actual meaning of the word Islam) must be torn town and replaced with Muslim shrines and temples, preferably using the very materials taken from the conquered building.

                      He built an army, and rode in, in force, to Mecca. Mecca was the first city conquered by Mohammed, and thus it is the “holiest city in Islam.” All other holy cities and sites also represent conquests… the most well-known of which is Jerusalem, or as the Muslims call it, “Al-Quds.”

                      When asked by his followers about why his earlier doctrines were not in agreement with his later doctrines, he claimed that some of his “visits” were not from Gabriel, but had been from Satan, impersonating Gabriel.

                      Salman Rushdie wrote a book discussing this… called “The Satanic Verses.” For this reason, Rushdie still carries an order of death (in the form of a Fatwah) from Muslim clerics throughout the world.

                      So… Mohammed was either a liar all along… or he was being honest, and trying to do as he was told by his “angelic advisor.”

                      But if he was being honest… we know that he was able to be fooled, because he, himself, claimed that Satan gave at least some of Mohammed’s “revelations.”

                      I tend to believe Mohammed… I think he really did get visitation from an “Angel of Light.” I simply think that the “Angel of Light” was always, without exception, Lucifer (aka Satan).

                      Everything about his doctrine was basically a corruption of Judeochristian doctrine. They took Abrahamic faith and turned it on it’s ear… keeping some of the outward trappings but totally perverting the core elements.

                      Mohammed died by being fed poisoned lamb. The exact nature of the poison is unclear, but it is recorded that his flesh was eaten by maggots while he still lived… clearly it wasn’t anything very pleasant.

                      To imitate Christ, Mohammed had twelve followers. However, these were nothing like Christ’s disciples. Unlike those of Jesus, Mohammed’s followers immediate set upon each other after his death, and warred among each other for a long time.

                    • BigIrish says:

                      You need to do a little more research about Catholics. We do not worship the Holy Mother. We reconize her as a vessel for the Lord and an important tool in the bringing of the Son of God.

                    • Paula says:

                      jstan, you seem to be as confused about what we Catholics believe as Chris.Curran above is about what we all, as the Christian community, believe about God. Veneration does NOT equal worship…Catholics do NOT worship Mary. We do consider her to have a very special and holy position as the Mother of God.

                      Catholics worshipping Mary, or anyone or thing but God the Father, The Son or The Holy Spirit is a fallacy often, sadly, [mis-]preached by people outside of the Catholic church who have NO idea of what we believe…We worship and adore the Lord God Almighty. We worship and adore Jesus Christ, His only-begotten Son, our Messiah, who has redeemed us from our sins (Jesus, my life, my joy, my Saviour!). Like every other practising Catholic/Christian, I know Jesus died for my sins. Like other practising Catholic/Christians, I know that the Bible is God’s Word revealed to man.

                      If you are not certain what Catholics believe about a particular subject, or would like to understand more about the Catholic church in general, please consult an accurate source such as

                  • Linda says:

                    Jesus is GOD’s Only BEGOTTEN not made SON, the blood comes from the Father The HS overshadowed mary and her flesh contained the SON of GOD! He didn’t take on Adams sin curse because he was not in Adams bloodline! Sin could not conquer Him because His Blood was pure and His pure Blood could atone for our sin as the “perfect Lamb w/o blemish(type). He was adirect descendant to David’s throne and legally also through Joseph His step father. Every women thought she might be the one who produced the Savior and all His miracles should’ve told them their appointed time had come, The Annointed one! He is Godman Very God and Very man!! When the Jews rejected their Risen Lord(end of Acts.) they were set aside to be provoked to jealousy only temporarily and the gentile was grafted in and God will resume His plan to complete the covenant to Abraham punish them for the last 7 yrs of the Babylonian judgement for not keeping the Sabbath and for rejecting there Messiah seeking after pagan gods and destroy the world system anti-christ etc. worshipping satan. Jesus will come to save them when they call for Him the one whom they pierced to save them! (“Blessed is He who cometh in the Name of the LORD(GOD)”!

              • Marco says:

                Jesus comes from the lineage of David. David is of the Tribe of Judah. Being Jewish means you are of the tribe of Judah. The Jewish kingdom was Judah and Benjamin (the rest of Israel turned away from following GOD and seperated from Judah). you can’t take two verses out of context and try to deceive people. Revalations says that there will be 12,000 from EVERY tribe of Israel (12 Tribes, One is JUDAH which is the Jews). All of Israel wont be saved, only 144,000. However, revelations goes on to say there is a multitude that could not be counted that will be in heaven; they are those who went through great tribulation, come from EVERY NATION, and are washed by the blood of the lamb. That is the Gentile Christians. I encourage you all to read Rev 7 in it’s entirety and pray the Holy Spirit lead you. Rev 2:9, 3:9 is speaking of the hypocrits who claim to follow GOD but do not, just like people claim to be christians but do not follow Christ; Just as Jesus spoke against the Pharisee for their religious traditions that meant nothing to G-D. Ask the Holy Spirit of G-D to lead you, and do not be offended. But Do Not bring this false doctrine in to deceive the people of GOD again.

                • Linda says:

                  Marco “All of Israel wont be saved, only 144,000.” There’s a remnant of Israel that wi be saved through the witness of the 144,000. These witnesses are from the 12 Tribes equally=12,000. from ea. Tribe. Not all out of Israel is Israel only a remnant! It is NOT only gentiles who will be saved during that time, as Jesus will not appear until they/Israel call for the one whom they pierced. He will then come to save them from utter destruction during the Great Tribulation aka Jacob’s Trouble. It breaks your heart to think they are so blinded that they will not see until they suffer so for rejecting their Messiah(end of Acts.(18) when after His Resurrection they denied Him and Paul declared they have been put temporarely aside and He would now go to the Gentiles.

              • Marco says:

                Jesus is from David’s blood. David is a Jew of the Tribe of Judah. Jewish = of the tribe of Judah. Read Rev 7 in it’s entirety and do not attempt to deceive people with out of context, false doctrine. Only 12,000 from Each tribe of Israel will be saved. Judah (Jews) is one of the 12 tribes. only 144,000 Israelites are saved. but a multitude that could not be counted are washed by the blood of the lamb (Revalations 7:9-17). These are “gentile” Christians, Spritual Israel. Rev 2:9, 3:9 is about hypocrits like the Pharisee Jesus dealt with who claim to be religious and follow traditions and false doctrines and have no real fellowship with G-D.

                • joseph says:

                  Marco, Jesus Christ was neither Jew nor Gentile nor even Samaratin in the Bible it says we are saved by the blood of God Himself. Remember He was virgin born NO SEX because sexual knowledge was what doomed man in the garden of eden in the first place. So Christ is born naturally or on paper to the lineage of David but not spiritually. If the blood of a jew couldve done the trick any jew would work.

                • Linda says:

                  Marc the 144000 from the 12 Tribes(12,000 fro each) who are they witnessing to? To their Brethern! They will Believe and the 2 Witnesses possibly Moses and Ezech. will also convince the Brethern and those who did not make their decision of faith before the Dispensation of GRACE The Mystery hidden in GOD before the Foundations of the world, read Ephesians and study it carefully re. the Mystery! Even the Prophets didn’t know of it. It was not Prophecide even though gentiles were prophecied to come to Faith. Rev. says there will be a great mass of believers and even some from the Nations that fought ag. Israel. The people were called Jews by the Babylonians because of Judah. I believe Rome derived the name Palestinians to rid of Jews. (Not certain I’m saying that part correct it’s by memory!)

                • greg morren says:

                  I would be carefull telling people who GODS children are, you are not the JUDGE, JESUS will be, lets not forget he came to save sinners, Gentile sinners who are born again through CHRIST the BIBLE says they are grafted into the vine and by being born again gives us a new race, no longer gentiles but CHRISTIANS.We have been grafted into the vine called ISREAL, IE; GODS children

              • socabill says:

                I assume you went to grammar school. So why you didn’t learn about punctuation is beyond me.

                • Cary says:

                  Just a suggestion… more relevant to this page than to most… it’s a good idea to make it clear, via context, who you are referring to.

                  As far as I can tell, your response is directed towards “Alicia.” I’m judging that based upon the relative width of the lines to the left of each posting. It SEEMS that hers must be the one to which you are replying.

                  If it isn’t, please clarify.

              • Linda says:

                All must come to Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God the same way as Abraham did=by Faith, COMPLETE Trust in Him! Not all Israel is of Israel. Paul was the Apostle to the Gentile as Christ appointed Him to that position, to reconcile all who would believe by Grace through Faith, both Gentiles and Jews alike to make one new man. The promised Kingdom is the covenant to Abraham by God through Isaac & Jacob(changed to Israel). This is the dispenation of Grace(unmerited favor)for ALL who would believe! So believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved!

              • Jes says:


                Well said. I was about to quote Rev.29 & Rev.3.9 – Those belonging to the Synagogue of Satan – These are not the Children of Yaakov (Jacob.

                People who don’t study the Bible are dumb and stupid and these are the same people who will run helter skelter and or ignorantly take the mark of the beast. These will be grilled in hell…

              • Linda says:

                Jesus came for His Brethern they rejected their annointed Messiah and jesus appeared to Paul/a Pharisee/Benjamite after His Resurrection and sent Him to the Gentile nations to reconcile them to God fufilling Is. prophecy of “hearing they do not hear, seeing they do not see, but the gentile will. In the end the remnant of the Abrahamic Covenant with God, believers of nations and peoples during Jacob’s trouble(The Great Tribulation) will be saved by Jeshua and enter the Millenium/land promise fulfilled=David;’s throne and will sit upon it and rule with rod of iron! After that “they” and the raptured/catching away Believers( The Mystery hidden in God before the Foundations of the world/Paul’s Gospel) and Bride of Christ(Jewish Believers resurrected, made pure will all become one new man in the New Jerusalem The City Abraham looked for, not made with hands, but whose builder & maker is GOD!

              • greg morren says:

                I would be carefull telling people who GODS children are, you are not the JUDGE, JESUS will be, lets not forget he came to save sinners, Gentile sinners who arew born again through CHRIST the BIBLE says they are grafted into the vine and by being born again gives us a new race, no longer gentiles but CHRISTIANS.We have been grafted into the vine called ISREAL, IE; GODS children

          • Tpartymom says:

            What is mentioned in John 8:44 applies to all who choose to do the will of the devil.Whom you honor is your father Yeshua is Jewish and as for the anti-chrit yes there has been many with the spirit of antichrist but there will be one beast that will fool many and if you call him good then you are a demon and have been and do not honor our Father who is in Heaven. All are sinners but those who repent and believe in Yeshua that He did die and conquered death to rise alive after the 3rd day to pay the price of our sin, those sins are covered by the blood of Yeshua and never to be brought up during the judgment we will all face. Some Jews denied Christ then and some do now but more and more are receiving the revelation that Yeshua is the Messiah.Read Romans and he who has an ear will understand that like Paul, the scales will only fall from the eyes of the Jews that receive revelation.Much like me a gentile who’s faith in Christ was made stronger when my 3 y/o daughter informed me that Christ came to her and showed her in her dream, that when she was a newborn,dead from the moment they cut the cord put on a machine to breath only to leave the icu 8 days later, alive and well.He told her that His blood healed her we had not said anything to her either about Yeshua speaking to us in dreams. We were told that she would have delays in everyway,not when my Lord has the final say in matters cause she’s an A student and very athletic. We love You and thank You Lord for everything,for our blessings and our tribulations for you reprove the ones you love and never leave them.

          • Patty says:

            Jesus was Jewish and so wqhere the first 8,000 believers in Yeshua. The Jewish people are not devils. Read the whole Bible. Do not take things out of context.

            • alicia says:

              Yahwushua is not a jew the Father said He no those who say they are Yahuda but is the synogage of satan. Rev 3:9 and Rev 2:9. In 1948 the jews who are decendence from europe proclaim they were the hebrews but the Father says His people have been in bondage because of their disobediance. Read Deut the whole chpt of 28, you will find out who the hebrew israelites are and if you fit these curses then You are of the Father, but the Father didn’t breath into you people you are neanderthal check your reading of the bible cause it was wrote for us and your history. Shalom

              • Marco says:

                alicia, you are wrong and deceived but you will not deceive GOD’s people. Jesus comes from the lineage of David. David is of the Tribe of Judah. Being Jewish means you are of the tribe of Judah. The Jewish kingdom was Judah and Benjamin (the rest of Israel turned away from following GOD and seperated from Judah). you can’t take two verses out of context and try to deceive people. Revalations also says that there will be 12,000 from EVERY tribe of Israel (12 Tribes, One is JUDAH which is the Jews). All of Israel wont even be saved, only 144,000. However, revelations goes on to say there is a multitude that could not be counted that will be in heaven; they are those who went through great tribulation, come from EVERY NATION, and are washed by the blood of the lamb. That is the Gentile Christians. I encourage you all to read Rev 7 in it’s entirety and pray the Holy Spirit lead you. Alicia, take your false doctrine somewhere else and do not try to deceive the people of GOD. Rev 2:9, 3:9 is speaking of the hypocrits who claim to follow GOD but do not, just like people claim to be christians but do not follow Christ; Just as Jesus spoke against the Pharisee for their religious traditions that meant nothing to G-D.

                • Linda says:

                  Marco “Revalations also says” just for the record there is only One Revelation and that’s of Jesus Christ to John the Apostle/revelator. These are the final words of Jesus Christ to the Jews warning them and the assemblies/synagogues showing where they left God in various ways to false worship or other things and that they better come back to their first love=God before their candlestick is removed etc., etc. they will recognize from the OT where this occured. (when their blinders are removed by God). It gives signs to the “sign people” of what to expect in the latter days, and Prophecied Jacob’s Trouble” God will NOT forsake His covenant with His people, the people He made for Himself when he called Abraham a Chadean to follow Him. He will be Faithful to His promise/word and bring them into their land and Kingdom on earth.(Abraham looked for the Heavenly Kingdom not made with hands, but whose builder and maker is GOD! Read who the pillars and foundation is in the New Jerusalem, (hint-12Tribes &12 Apostles), come down from Heaven after the millenium Kingdom (for 1000 yrs.) Remember no other writings have as many manuscripts to confirm The Word of God than the Bible OT-BC/NT-1st Cent-AD! Long, Long, Long before Islam/6th cent. AD! Please pray for God to show you the Truth! The way to Him!

                  • Linda says:

                    I’m sorry Marco I wasn’t saying to you to pray to believe I was talking to anyone who reads and is not a believer :)

              • greg morren says:

                How selfish some of the non Christian jews are, kinda like the ones who killed JESUS, I wonder if they take that thought process to the grave if they will be given the same treatmentg they gave others that love them

                • Jes says:

                  Greg, What is non-christian jews? The true children of Jacob are HEBREWS or ISRAELITES. The word JEW did not come into existence until 1775 before that they were called Hebrews or Israelites. If you want to know who the ‘synagogue of satan’ are as in Revelation 2.9 & 3.9 – check this out:
                  And by the way the Hebrews did not kill Jesus whose real Hebrew name is YAHOSHUA, some say Yahshua or Yeshua meaning YAHWEH (God) IS OUR SAVIOR. Jesus is a corruption of His real name. Here’s just an Example: If your name is Greg how would you feel if someone called you Obama? LOL!!! Btw, It’s the Romans the same evil ones of the Roman church who tortured and nailed Yahoshua to the cross – And of course He defied death so we could have eternal life with Him.
                  Anyways, a Hebrew does not have to convert to follow YAHOSHUA, all he/she has to do is accept Him as His/Her Messiah… and the same goes for any gentile person. This is our Loving and Merciful God.
                  Be Blessed.

          • Mike says:

            You don’t know your bible very well it is clear in scripture that God loves the Jews, the fact that you hate them shows me that your working for the wrong side, repent and your soul will be saved, the nations that hate Israel God will distroy, he wont spare you either.

          • JesusTheKing says:

            Wow Keith, you have it all figured out don’t ya. Ultimately it’s about hating God’s people for you huh. What a mental case…

          • ole says:

            But excuse me, if you think all Jews are evil, remember Jesus is also a Jew, in fact “the King of the Jews”.
            You have to repent. All who followed Jesus were Jews, and the Jews he talked to in John 8:44 was only a particular group of Jews, the Pharisees, and not all Jews in general. So stop the wicked twisting of the scripture!

            • Linda says:

              Ole you are correct!! Jesus came to the Jews, His Bretheren to be saved from the curse of sin and to bring in the Kingdom. The 12 Apostles were sent ONLY to the Jews, Peter ony went to one gentile by command, Cornelius. Their gifts were signs to the “sign people” who were to look for the signs that would prove their Messiah and Jesus fulfilled them and they rejected the signs and Him(not all). Paul a Pharisee out of the Tribe of Benjamin was appointed by Jesus Himself to go to the Gentiles as it was prophecised they would also be saved and part of the one new man made of both Jew and Gentile. Paul went to the Jews and then the Jews and Gentiles and then to the Gentiles as the Jews rejected for the final time their Resurrected Messiah and were temporarily set aside as he turned to the gentiles to provoke them to jealousy=to believe. No one comes to the Father except Jesus gives them to Him and no one comes to Jesus unless God calls them and gives them to Him. God even gives us the Faith to believe, so there is NO work on our part to brag we saved ourseves. It’s all God come in the flesh, even God’s pure blood that covers/saves us. One thing that must be kept in mind when reading I learned is “all” doesn’t mean evey last one. I don’t think we have been taught very well and that’s why so much confusion and denominations, not rightly dividing the word. There should only be One Body, the Church, the Body of Christ. So much is Traditions of men! There are some really good comments here!

          • cheagan says:

            If you were to do a little homework in the Greek of the New Testament, you would realize that the prefix “anti-” means not “against”, but “instead of” or “in the place of”. There is one religious organization whose priests, bishops, and popes all officially claim the moniker of Vicar (in the place of) of Christ… I’ll leave you to guess which one.

            • bible says:

              This comment is right and supported in 2 Thessalonians 2:3,4
              “that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped: so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
              I Tim 4:1-3
              “latter times some shall depart from the faith”
              “speaking lies”
              “Forbidding to marry and commanding to abstain from meats”
              The pope is the antichrist.
              No other religious system has been around from the time of the beginning of Christianity that fits the requirements like the pope. Think about it and read your bible.

              • Cary says:


                As a non-denominational Christian, I find many elements of Catholic belief and practice to be… well… dubious. Mainly, these are the elements which smack of “idolatry” and those which claim that the CHURCH, or its leaders, are “infallible.” These two elements are in contradiction with Christian doctrines.

                Nevertheless, I believe that to be Catholic means to be Christian. There are lots of subgroups within Christendom, and many of these are… well, I’ll say “confused” about one point or another. I’d bet that not a single one gets EVERYTHING RIGHT. But the key is that they TRY. When you’re trying your best to obey God’s will, you’re serving him, even if you make a mistake.

                There are anti-Christian forces within Catholicism, there’s no doubt. The prohibition against marriage for priests has made this a very appealing career for non-believing men who seek sex with other men, or with young boys for that matter, and a FEW of them have managed to make it through the church’s filters… where they’ve proven to be able to make great progress in the effort to further damage the church. These are not “the faithful,” they are “double-agents.”

                Similarly, there are, and have been, people at the head of the church at some points in history who have taken the “infallibility” doctrine seriously… and who have made themselves basically kings and dictators. These men did not follow the doctrine of Christ, and as such, were enemies of God, and I’m sure that there’s a special place in Hell for those who use the Church for evil purposes.

                However… to claim that the Pope is the Antichrist is simply STUPID. As with some of the other purposefully inflammatory statements made here by “one-off” posters recently, this is clearly just an attempt to “villainize” the forces who Lucifer wishes to completely destroy or subvert.

                It will not work. Sorry… try again.

                “Sitting in the Temple of God?” Well, only if you think that Rome is where is being discussed there. Of course, it was not. “The Temple of God” is the building atop the Temple Mount. Right now, that building is the “Dome of the Rock.” I suspect that, after rapidly-approaching (but doomed to fail) attack on Israel, later this year, Israel will simply go in with force and bulldoze the Dome. They’ll have no incentive NOT to. After all… they’ve “played nice” for years, and have been subjected to nothing but attacks as a result. And they already have all the materials ready to begin construction, prepared years ago for just this opportunity.

                “Speaking lies?” Well, by this argument, YOU could be considered the Antichrist. Or are you going to tell us that you, of all of humanity, have never spoken a lie? Hmm?

                “Departing from the faith?” Well, that’s a pretty good description of the world as a whole these days. I’ve been to plenty of supposedly “christian” churches during my life where the ministers preached what they, personally, believed, even when it was in DIRECT CONTRADICTION to Biblical imprecation. (I walked out in the middle of a sermon when one minister told us that, once “saved,” you cannot ever lose your salvation… and proceeded to argue against verses in the Bible, saying that they were “irrational” because he wanted to believe a recent, fallen-from-the-faith death would still be “saved.”)

                Oh, there’s plenty of “departing from the faith.” Unfortunately, these few who do it are becoming more common (not rarities like Jim and Tammy Faye anymore!) and more and more accepted.

                “Forbidding to marry?” Well, while I’d agree that the Catholic church does this… in fact, the church has been considering relaxing that standard. Meanwhile, we are seeing governments making it more and more difficult to marry, for financial reasons among others.

                This is a vague one, but I don’t see it as any evidence relating to the Catholic church. Rather, I see it as a foolish misinterpretation of a biblical verse.

                “Commanding to abstain from meats?” Okay… let’s see how you relate THAT to the pope. Hmmm?

                I think that it’s the “environmentalist, secular humanist” faith which does that… or at least seeks to do that, though so far with only partial success.

                If they can outlaw salt, if they can outlaw food coloring, if they can outlaw Happy Meals… why not outlaw meat?

                Claiming that the Pope is the Antichrist is STUPID. Nothing more, nothing less.

                While the Antichrist may co-opt the Vatican some day in the future, he will treat it as a despised subordinate, not as his “seat of power.”

                • Linda says:

                  Jesus said of all the Father gave Him he has lost none(paraphrased). NO ONE can pluck them out of my hand. When you beieve you are save and seaed by the HS and placed positionally in the Heavenlies with Christ unti to actuay arrive there. Once you are Born from Above(spiritually) you can not be unborn. Even in physica births you can change your name, but you will always be of your parentage. You can run away, change your identity shame your name and your family, but you still are part of your family! Paul declared he did what he didn’t want to do and didn’t do what he wanted to do(paraphrased) and who could save him fromthis wretched self, but then he declared Jesus did. It’s not your keeping that saves you and keeps you saved it’s who and what Jesus did and Is that saves you and it is eternal from the moment you believe. Thank God, because we can not keep ouselves perfect only Jesus shed blood covering us imputing our righteousness can. I was Cathoic until 16yrs old all Cath. school until then.You must keep the sacrements, go to mass, beieve the catechism etc. to be saved. Law and Grace. Read the catechism and anyone following that is NOT saved. Rome is corrupt and if you would like to learn more go to Chris Pinto’s Noise of Thunder Radio (archives) and he will teach you everything there is to know re. Rome/Pope etc.Jesuits. It’s more like a remnant of Cathoics are saved and don’t know or fear to leave then the other way around. The Pope also believes Jerusalem=seat is rightfully his and he is apostate Ecumenical=all roads lead to God. He embraces all religions even Islam.

                  • Linda says:

                    I apologize my letter L key is damaged and I was distracted when proof reading! Grace please :)

                  • Cary says:

                    I disagree, strongly, with the claims that you cannot lose your salvation. Saying that “no one can take you from me” is not the same as saying “you cannot leave me on your own.” Again, I see this as pure “wishful thinking” and misguided.

                    Yet, this is one of those issues upon which many believing Christians differ, and it is not an issue that should be discussed in the presence of those who have not accepted the basic tenets of Christianity at all.

                    I, personally, reject this as untrue. But I have no doubt that most of those who hold to this will nevertheless be saved.

                    Is “Rome corrupt?” Yes. But is Rome more corrupt than anything else on Earth? No, not really. “For ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.” Be very careful about taking a “Holier than thou” attitude.

                    As I said, NOT ONE Christian denomination is “perfectly right,” nor any other non-Christian faith. We all screw up. The true faith is what comes from God, and all of the churches on Earth are, ultimately, built upon men’s best, if flawed, attempts to conform to what God tells them they should be doing. Some may be more flawed than others, but even the most flawed still have SOME elements of God’s truth in them. Not because these necessarily follow God’s will directly, but because God “writes the law” inside of all of us. We call this our conscience, or our “moral compass,” or the like, but this is ultimately from God, and any faith (even a false one) must have enough of that “moral truth” to convince us to believe in it.

                    It is easier to deceive with “mostly truth” than it is to deceive with pure lies, isn’t it?

                    The question is… does the Pope submit himself to Jesus Christ, and do his best to follow God’s commandments? I believe he does. And thus, I want to caution you to be VERY careful about condemning.

                    It is not for you, or for I, to decide “who is Christian” and who is not. We can make a judgement as to who is a “good Christian,” or a “bad Christian,” I supposed… but even that can be dangerous. It’s not our place to determine that. We’re responsible for ourselves, and for spreading the faith as best we can, but not to condemn others, which is what you seem to be doing.

                    Be careful.

                    • Brenda says:

                      I agree with Cary–re: the once saved always saved issue. We can lose our salvation if we become so arragent and think that once we have been saved we will never sin or fall short of the Glory of God–we all sin and we all fall short and the only way to salvation is repentence and Christ.
                      I am a Catholic and I am not so arrogent to think that once I have confessed my sins and done penenance that I will never fall again–I just pray I don’t–we==Christian are at war and that war is spiritual-Satans time is so short and he and his demons never sleep–they are brawling this world seeking the ruin of souls and I am sure he–satan { I purposely do not capitalized his name as he is not worthy of even that reconition} loves is we Christians fight with each other trying to further the gap between us–we need to pray for one another–come together to support and strengthen each other as Christ calls us to do.
                      The Pope is not the anti-chirst–
                      Also I liked where Cary said ” We’re responsible for ourselves, and for spreading the faith as best we can, but not to condemn others
                      Look at the Lords Prayer–Forgive us our tresspasses as WE FORGIVE those who tresspass against us and Leed us not into temptation but deliver us from evil–all this fighting among Christians devides us and how can we exspect God to forgive us unless we can forgive others.
                      Can we come together as CHRISTIANS and focus on Jesus Christ as our center-our hope and our salvation–can we pray for one another that God will watch over us all and protect us and guide us and strengthen us so we can accomplish what God has created us to achieve.
                      Let us lift one another up and what we do not understand -we pray and ask for God’s wisdom .
                      Be very careful about standing in judgement people we are not God and we are not to judge–put to pray for one another.
                      How we judge others God will judge us.
                      Also I would caution people to be very careful about what they say about the mother of Christ–I am sure He does not appreciate negative comments about His mother.
                      I respect and honor her but I do not worship her.
                      I honor her because she said yes to God–the handmaid of the Lord.
                      She was pure and spotless she had to be –Her womb was the ark and the new covenant was Jesus.
                      How could Jesus be inside a womb that was not pure and spotless-He couldn’t–How much purer was she then the original ark that housed the ten comandments-? She was purer than pure gold as she housed our Savior and our Lord so be very careful as not to offend Jesus with negative talk about his mom.
                      Mary was from the tribe of David and she was Jewish-and she was the first Christian Jew if you think about it
                      God Bless us all and continue to guide us along HIS path

                    • Linda says:

                      This is for Carey & Brenda. Don’t believe me, Believe the scriptures!

                      Everyone wanting to KNOW and Jesus said we can know that we have Eternal Life, not temporary forgiveness and then we’re on our own works Pease read this! (John’s Gospel)


                    • Linda says:

                      Brenda & Carey, I was listening to Chris Pinto/Noise of Thunder Radio again after these “Eternal Security vs Conditional Security statements and he was addressing that very topic! Seems a lot of comments left after the interview.

                      So here is a link to it, it’s 2pts(2 days radio msg.) I think you would enjoy and maybe benefit from the program. I hope you listen with an open mind. (arguments for ES vs CS)


                      I think he touches most of the arguments made by each side. Everyone else would also benefit from the study :) It is all about understanding Grace, God’s Mystery Hidden Before the Foundations of the World, not prophecide in Ephesians!!!!

                      We need to understand the differences of the Jew & Gentiles, The Jewishis Believers vs the Gentiles Believers, The Body of Christ during the Dispensation of GRACE and when things revert back under the Law when the Body of Christ is removed (latter days). we need to undertand who is Matthew etc. speaking to (his Brethern the Jew and all that entails as Jews). We are told to follow Paul’s Gospel(to the Gentile) We can read and learn things and apply to ouselves as Christians, but it’s directed to the JEWS.

                      The Jews who remain (and everyone else) will be under the law again the law showed how they must live(remember Jesus said He came not to abolish the law, but to fulfill it) The law was a schoolmaster Paul said to show them what sin looked like (remember before Moses and the law they did not identify sin, but everyman did what was right in his own eyes.

                      They needed to know and understand their offenses before a Holy God. A standard was set and that also revealed in their cursed flesh they COULDN’T keep it (break one break all!) and their NEED of a Messiah/Jesus the Annointed. God come in the flesh. (It will be extremely difficult for those left behind to have Faith and keep themselves pure(No Grace). Jesus said when I come will I find Faith?

                      Who else could save them? Everyone from Adam were under the curse through the blood of man/Adam even the whole earth and universe was under that curse. The bible says the whole earth groans…

                      We as Believers are admonished all through scripture to strive to keep ourselves pure in thought and deed, but when we fall and we will we have Grace,the Blood atonement covering us! We are to confess=align are thinking with God that we sinned(but covered) and continue our walk as Ambassadores for Christ in the Ministry of reconcilliation for all men. :)

                • Rich says:

                  The 112th Pope is going to be the false prophet/not the anti christ,we are currently at Pope 111,and as far as the anti-christ goes he will rise out of Europe,read up on Revelations to prove this for yourself.

                  • Cary says:

                    You say that with remarkable authority. Care to support that?

                    I have heard all variety of numerological arguments in favor of that, typically by folks who have bones to pick with Catholicism.

                    Me, I’m not a Catholic, but I DO recognize Catholicism as being every bit as much “Christian” as any of the other Christian creeds. Yes, I think that they get some things wrong… but so do many protestant creeds.

                    There is a great deal of evidence about the nature of the False Prophet in the Bible. None of which mentioned, or either directly or indirectly references a “Pope.”

                    The most likely identity of the “False Prophet,” as far as I’m concerned, is that he will be the person who Muslims refer to as “Jesus.”

                    Yes, Muslims believe in a person who will be identified as being “the second coming of Jesus.” Of course, they deny every Christian element of who Jesus Christ is, and who he self-identified as being. Rather, they promote this person as a Prophet… and he will be the right-hand-man of the Mahdi. He will, in fact, be the person who will lead the eradication of the Christians in the world at that point. This is from Islamic belief, folks.

                    And you want to know what else? Islam teaches that Jesus will execute those who refuse to convert to Islam, and that the execution will be by beheading.

                    Any of that sound familiar from a CHRISTIAN perspective?

                    The man Christians know as the Antichrist is the man Muslims know as the Mahdi, or the “final Caliph” (and currently known as the “Hidden Imam”).

                    The man Christians know as the “false prophet” is the man Muslims will believe is the returned Jesus.

                    The man Christians know to be the true Jesus is the man who Muslims are taught is their “antichrist,” also known as the Dajal.

                    Everything is in place. The game pieces are already on the board. The respective prophesies of these two faith systems are diametrically opposed… ie, both share the same prophecies, except for which side is supposed to be the “good guys” and which is supposed to be the “bad guys.”

                    Lucifer, through Islam (his greatest invention yet to separate human souls from God) has created a system which meets EVERY SINGLE BIBLICAL PROPHETIC EXPECTATION, including the battle of Armageddon (where the Muslim Jesus is supposed to engage the “false Jesus,” or Dajal, in the north of Israel… and the Dajal and his jewish followers will be “slaughtered by the Muslim Jesus” according to Islamic belief. I mean… how else can you explain the idea of “all of the Antichrist’s armies, from all over the world” moving in to fight against Jesus, the TRUE Jesus, even knowing all that’s come to pass up until that point?

                    Will the next pope be a good guy or a bad guy? I don’t know… because there is zero direct scriptural support for either perspective. We need to be wary, but also to not pretend to have information which God has not given to us.

                    SO… please, Rich, tell us why you believe that the “false prophet” will be the next pope? I’m not a pope-fan, but I find that unsupported and, frankly, somewhat unlikely.

                    At most, I can imagine him being a secondary figure, submitting to the Mahdi (and the Muslim Jesus) and leading the Great Apostasy.

                    But let’s be clear… unless it’s information given by divine revelation… or as I believe is the case with Islam, mock-divine, but actually demonic, revelation… there’s a lot of guesswork involved, and it’s dangerous to promote an idea like “the pope is the antichrist” or “the pope is the false prophet” unless you can provide some STRONG scriptural support for that.

                    My support for my conclusions is based upon the perfect meshing of Islamic and Christian eschatology… except for the reversal… and the fact that current events show that this is all happening RIGHT NOW (in fact, I believe that the three “kings” which are to be cut off include…

                    Hosni Mubarak
                    Muammar Gaddafi
                    Bashar al-Assad

                    Two of the three have already been “cut off” and are now subsumed by the “little horn.” When Assad’s Syria falls, to be taken over by the Muslim Brotherhood (the precursor to the revived Caliphate), expect to see Revelations to come into full swing.

                    All in my humble judgement, of course!

                  • Sue says:

                    Now we are 7 months from this statement you made and he current pope is stepping down at the end of the month. I must say, these are some very exciting times we are living in. But please share how you come to the conclusion that the false prophet will be the 112th pope. If you are right, we will witness this very soon!

          • Dan says:

            Keith: You say, “all those who are good, christians, muslims, etc.”, but the Jews are the “evil ones”. How can Christians, who live their lives according to the teachings of a Jew (Jesus), be good…if Jesus, being a Jew, is evil?

            • Cary says:

              No ACTUAL CHRISTIAN claims that “Jews are evil.” Or, for that matter, that ANY “group” is entirely evil.

              See, anyone who actually follows the doctrines of Christianity understands that “group think” is antithetical to Christianity.

              We are… all of us… INDIVIDUALS in the eyes of God. We cannot be “saved” as a group, only as an individual. We have to make an individual choice, and as an individual make consistent choices and as individuals consistently behave as we’re required to do.

              ANYONE, of any ethnicity, can be a Christian. We have NO ETHNIC STANDARDS… and anyone who claims that we do is not a true follower of Christian doctrines.

              Yes, we may be “gentiles” but this is not an insult, only a statement of fact… we aren’t the people who God has chosen to use as his example (both for good, when they are obedient to him, and for bad, when they are not) to the rest of us. THEY are his “chosen people,” but this doesn’t mean that they get special privileges, only that they’re the “teachable example” for the rest of us. As far as Christianity’s idea of salvation is concerned, a Jew is no more, or less, able to be “saved” than the rest of us.

              Those who make that argument are simply engaging in deceit… and we all know, deceit does not come from God, and when you lie, you’re not serving God, you’re serving the self-declared enemy of God.

              Yes, Jews are every bit as capable as the rest of us of making that choice. But they are no MORE capable of it than any of the rest of us. And it’s simply IN OPPOSITION TO GOD to proclaim that “Jews are evil” unless you’re also saying “all mankind is equally evil.”

            • Linda says:

              GOD says mans heart is wicked continually and Jesus said why do you call me good? He said no one is good no not one! They wanted to call him good, but not God! We, “man” are continually wicked are flesh is totally corrupt and depraved!!!! You are seen as dead and corrupt except through the Blood of Jesus. You can not keep yourself pure period, but only IN CHRIST as you yield to the Holy Spirit. That’s His job, to change you from glory to glory to be renewed into the image of Jesus/God! Brenda and Cary you must’ve lost your salvation already because I and God know you have sinned much since you first believed. I think you can not trust Jesus’ atonement alone for your salvation you need to help Him! Good luck with that! Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved! That’s what the scriptures say you have another Gospel. Don’t put fear into your brothers and sisters in Christ because you have not studied them well. Rightely divide the Word and in context, who, what, where, and when before you piece meal the word of God. Quit following the Traditions of Men who were infected with Romanism/Constantine.

          • Vincent says:

            Hilter and Napoleon were not the first two anti-christs. Nebuchadnezzar (Babalyon) Ceasar (Roman Empire). Hitler and Napoleon didn’t conquer the known world. I will admit you are correct the third anti-christ will make all others look like choir boys. You may want to read the fifth trumpet judgement and study the fallen angels and their offspring the nephilim to understand more about the next anti-christ. I would suggest reading by Patrick Heron Return of the Antichrist and the New World Order. Also Apollyon Rising. Probably a good start for you since you are pretty clueless on the subject.

            • Linda says:

              Go all the way back to Nimrod! A hunter of men(men’s souls). You mentioned Nephii and re. Nimrod there’s a lot to be learned there!

              • Linda says:

                Read Two Babylons by Alexander Hysop and get all the names and cross refs. of Nimrod and Semiramis and after Nimrod’s violent destruction how Semiramis created the Mother Child worship(underground) Mystery Rel of Babylon, she being the “Tabernacle”(womb) and Tammuz being the promised ONE from the Virgin, all taken from the Promise to Adam/Abraham/Noah, the counterfit rel. Rome today! Before ev.. declares what they think the Pope and Rome believe they better do a indepth study on them, lest you make yourself an enemy of GOD! Tom Horn;s releasing a book in the next wks that is about the Prophecy of Malachi Martin, The Last Pope. He and another man/researcher(Hutchins I believe) have dug into “Rome”(& the Prophecy) and what has been discovered along the way in their own words is terrifying. 1/3 of clergy are satanists. Keep defending them in your pride and ignorance and see where it leads you. Paganism/Mystery Babylon is on the rise and all roads lead to Rome. Semiramis “Queen of Heaven” all rel. on the earth worship her!

          • terillia says:

            Keith, Where do you get this stuff??? What bible are you reading? My Bible says the anti-Christ is bad;
            and guess what? He hates everyone and his goal is to kill, steal, and destroy; you, me, everyone. He wants to take as many people to hell with him as he possibly can. He is the deceiver and the father of lies! With all due respect, wake up – and read God’s Word, the Holy Bible – see for your self.

        • Hi Kim,
          You are right and your are wrong
          Re.The Mark – its not the RFID but its a chip that can track you down anywhere in the world … just like they have in animals, cars, etc. The Mark will be the 6-pointed-star

 – most interesting.
          Hope this will enlighten you.

          • Cary says:

            Let’s be very blunt here… we do not know the exact nature of “the mark.”

            We know only a few features of it.

            1) it is permanently affixed to the body (potentially removable by surgery, I supposed, but it’s made part of you).

            2) The location can be either the back of the right hand, or the forehead. (Presumably, this is to permit those with amputations… though it may also be a matter of “convenience” and/or of “outright public declaration” as well.)

            3) It will be impossible to engage in commerce without having it.

            When credit cards became common, many people saw this as the beginning of “the mark.” I would tend to agree, but only as the BEGINNING.

            When RFID chips began to be implanted into convicts, and into the right hands of soldiers using the new “keyed weapons,” this was of particular interest.

            When banking became centralized (and this has already happened… pretty much every “official” financial transaction in the world passes through a central system located in Brussels, Belgium, today), there were many, many people who saw this as “the end.”

            Of course, the problem is that we do not yet have a UNIFIED, NON-NATIONAL finance system… and we still have CASH (which permits us to engage in commerce which is untraceable).

            So… watch for the creation of a true, international currency (this is currently being discussed… see news about a “global non-national reserve currency to replace the dollar”). And watch for the recommendation of the elimination of currency (ie, physical money) to “prevent crime” or some such argument.

            At first, there will be the credit card, simply expanded to serve this purpose… but when you realize that a single implanted chip can carry not only that but also your medical records, etc… oh, the “benefits” of an implanted chip will become a nearly perpetual mantra among our “thought-shapers” in the media.

            Will there also be a physical symbol? Oh, I wouldn’t be surprised to see it, IN ADDITION to the functional device. But I don’t see any way that a mere physical symbol (tattoo or the like) can fulfill the requirements spelled out in prophecy. Do you?

            Oh, and by the way… I find that fascinating to see claims that the Star of David is proof that the Jews are evil.

            I’ve said this before, repeatedly… EVIL CANNOT EXIST EXCEPT AS A CORRUPTION OF SOMETHING GOOD. There is no such thing as something which is evil purely for the sake of being evil. All evil is “good which has been spoiled.”

            So… the Star of David is a symbol supposedly given to David by God. The OCCULT version of this is a FIVE-POINTED STAR… the PENTAGRAM.

            But even if there is use of the hexagram in the occult as well… this proves nothing, except that occult forces like the number six… or perhaps that they seek to discredit Judaism by corrupting the Star of David.

            I’m not a Jew. I have no allegiance to Judaism, except that I recognize it as the root of my own belief, merely incomplete.

            But I see things like this… unsupported except by a few unsupported web sites… with the sole intention of portraying Jews, and Israel, as “evil.” And when I see them, the first reaction I have is “this is part of the global, concerted effort to isolate and villainize Israel, by those who serve the self-proclaimed enemy of God.

            I mean… c’mon now… doesn’t this seems like grasping at straws in the attempt to make Israel look bad??? It’s really pathetic, isn’t it?

          • Linda says:

            Cary How do you explain Grace/unmerited favor? If it is Grace it is no more works and if works it is NO MORE Grace! We are admonished to live worthy of the call, but if we could save ourselves and keep ourselves saved in our fallen, cursed, dead to God flesh we would not need a savior.

            Eph.2:2-10 (we are CREATED IN CHRIST)The law was given as a schoolmaster to show mans condition and inability to keep the laws, the 635 laws. If you break even one you are guilty of death. Jesus said not just the letter of the law, but the spirit of the law ie. adultery/fornication vs lust in your mind.

            We are not just saved, but in Christ and He in us. You are organicly a part of Jesus body! Eph.3:3 (all) The Mystery, Eph.4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. The HS is our ernest( dep.)sealed in escrow if you will until the closing, either by caught up/Rapture or death when we finaly escape this cursed body!

            I hope you don’t think you are righteous because you make some attempt at walking in the Spirit! I hope you don’t think you have mastered your flesh, because even Paul could not.

            The teachers mostly teach w/o righty dividing the word=they assign everything to the “church” That’s why we have Dominionism, Prederism, anti-semitism all out of Catholicism. The 12 Apostles except Paul appointed by Christ Himself to the Gentile were sent to the House of Israel to them only. The Gospels have things that can benefit us as believers, but they were specifically to the Jew not the Gentile. You can do a indepth study at Lion and Lamb Ministry, Pastor David Picos D.D. in his Rev.series Here/easy access This will be pure scripture/KJV teaching, NOT traditions of men. Go through this in prayer and ask God to open your eyes of understanding to what the HS would teach you(unbiased open minded).

            When you divide the word in context, to who is being spoken to it makes sense and takes any legalism out of Grace. It takes the divisions out of the Body where they should not be! We are ONE BODY. If you think you can loose what God has given you for eternity than you have NO Blessed Hope, you have NO peace, you have No security for eternity! You MUST keep yourself and be your own redeemer, and you’re own righteousness. :( This is far different than being admonished to walk in the spirit, and being changed from Glory to Glory.

            What about the babes in Christ needing still milk, the carnal Christian(still IN CHRIST saved but representing Christ poorely)? What happens to the scripture ICor.3:15 that done in the flesh shall be burned but he himself shall be saved so as by fire. Some have died eary etc., but saved.

            2Cor.5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

            17Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

            18And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

            19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, NOT (my emphasis) imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. (GRACE! UNMERITED!!!FAVOR, IMPUTED.)

            20Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.

            21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God IN HIM (my emphasis).

            I am saved by Grace and it was eternal as I first repented(Metanoia=a change of mind) and believed and placed my COMPLETE TRUST in Jesus who He is & what he did for me! I am relying on His finished work on the cross/resurrection to reconcile me back to the Father. I have perfect peace and trust in the one who extended the offer/God through His ONY begotten Son Jesus. Pure Grace!

            • Cary says:

              Simply stated, the entire point of the Christian doctrine of salvation is one of free will. We get to choose to follow, or not to follow.

              It is not a matter of “good works,” or of being in some manner “infallible.” Neither is possible.

              But at no point in our mortal existence is our free will taken away. At any point, we may choose to follow, and at any point we may freely choose to turn away.


              And your stated belief on this matter is more in agreement with Islam in this regard than it is with the biblical principle of free choice being at the center of Christian salvation.

              In Islam, once someone is a Muslim they are not permitted to turn away. They are denied their free will and the ability to make a choice. In Islam, if you turn away from that faith, you are given the chance to recant that choice, but if you fail to do so, you are (according to Islamic tradition and law) to be put to death as an apostate.

              This is no better or worse than the belief that a Christian cannot choose to leave the faith.

              ALL Christian belief is based upon the concept of free will and free choice. We choose to follow Christ, and we can choose to turn away. We cannot choose to “be perfect” or to be “good enough,” but we must acknowledge our mistakes and our flaws and must have it in our hearts to ask God, through Christ and through the Holy Spirit, to forgive these sins.

              It is a fact that there have been people who, at some point in their lives, have truly believed, and who have truly done all in their power to follow Christ, and who have subsequently fallen away from the church, and have in some cases outright denied God.

              They did not become mindless robots and automatons upon receiving their salvation. They retained their ability to make choices, including the wrong choices. And thus, if they choose to abandon their salvation, as matter of free will and conscious choice, they can do so, can’t they?

              Christianity involves a personal god, a single figure (with multiple aspects, which we can only perceived, with our limited minds, individually) who seeks not to have mindless machines to operate and maintain, but to have free lovers and servants.

              Imagine this parallel. Imagine a marriage, where there is no love, yet where there is no legal provision for divorce. The wife does not love her husband and does not wish to be with him, but is prohibited from leaving “by law.”

              Now, imagine a society where divorce is free, easy, and permissible. A wife who ceases to love her husband may leave him, and the law will provide no limit to her for doing so. But the husband may always love his wife, and will gladly accept her should she choose to return, and will forgive her once she does so, provided that she returns for the right reasons and in the right way.

              Or think of a son who falls away from his father’s good will, but who returns to his father’s household once realizing that he’s made errors. Perhaps you might even call him “Prodigal.”

              The father forgives and celebrates that son’s return to the house of his father.

              That is what the biblical elements you mention really refer to. NO ONE can separate you from God’s love, nor from God’s forgiveness, but you have the right to walk away, and you have the right to never return. But God will always, and without exception, forgive you if you return and, in your heart, truly wish for forgiveness.

              This is a biblical principle. “Loss of free choice and free will” is not, however… but it is a great source of comfort to those who wish to pretend that those whom they love, and who have chosen, as a matter of free will and free choice, to turn away from God will somehow “still be OK.”

              No. If someone you love and care for turns away from God, you must do all in your power to convince them to turn around, and they must choose to return to God. And they have the right, and the ability, to choose not to do so.

              No one can make that choice on their behalf. You can’t. Their enemies can’t. And even God can’t… not without removing the gift of free will from them. God can do all things that are possible, but God cannot (by definition) do things that are irrational.

              God cannot make a square circle… not because this is a limitation on God’s power, but rather because this phrase is mere nonsense.

              Similarly, God cannot have “free followers and lovers” who have no ability to choose whether or not they are his followers. Not because this is a limit upon his power, but simply because this is inherently irrational and nonsensical.

              Either we have free will and free choice, or we are mindless automatons.

              All Christian doctrine, in the end, is built upon the idea that we were created with free will (which is where “evil”… the concept of disobedience to God’s will, and the ability to choose to disobey God… comes from).

              Take away that free will, at any point, and you have undercut the most important aspect of Christian belief.

              And you have taken on the most central aspect of Islamic belief.

              • Linda says:

                “In Islam, once someone is a Muslim they are not permitted to turn away. They are denied their free will and the ability to make a choice. In Islam, if you turn away from that faith, you are given the chance to recant that choice, but if you fail to do so, you are (according to Islamic tradition and law) to be put to death as an apostate.” Carey you have made the point of Islamic rulers taking away the free will to choose or walk away from a powerless false religion. Powerless in re. to being real as re. to God and God’s power to destroy both body and soul. You have NOT made your point re. God drawing you to Jesus giving you the Faith to believe and continuing to show you the truth re. Jesus. Our free will then chooses out of seeing in Faith the ONE TRUE REDEEMER. Then with our free will change our minds/metanoia=repent from what we thought was the way and now all our Faith/Trust is paced in Christ. You if truley have done that would never desire to leave the one and only way of salvation, back to God’s family(not just His creation). This can only be done in the “ONE WAY” that leads to God. All others are false and powerless to keep you, they do not contain the HS and are doomed to fail either at present or in the end. Just as Judas was an Apostle, but never beied Jesus was God! He looked the part in every way to his brethern, but God knew and chose him to be the betrayer.We are not to make decisions re. how others “seem” to be saved, God will seperate the wheat from the tares. He ONLY knows men’s hearts! It is not the person in Islam not having free will either, it is their Rulers taking their free will away from them. You are comparing apples to oranges because their is NO spiritual power from God in Islam/Allah the moon god to keep them. God on the other hand elects draws you,keeps bringing truth to you until you believe(why some are at deaths bed in old age finally believe). It’s still our free will because we now KNOW and receive by Faith God’s Truth. Like Peter when asked “where would we go you are the living Christ” paraphrased. My ability to “rest” in Christ for my salvation/the ONLY WAY is not like a brainwashed Muslim forbidden to search for truth. A Muslim taught ONLY the Koran, living out of fear or death, who is never assured of acceptance by Allah and ignorance through generational adhearance. This is similar to Catholicism, except the priests won’t won’t put a Fatwa or whatever it’s called on you, or relative kill you for rejecting Allah/Islam! I’m sorry you feel you must keep striving inorder to be saved I instead will and have placed my trust in the ONLY ONE who can save, Jesus Christ, Immanuel, God with us, GOD.
                Also let me reply here: For the man who said Catholics only reverence Mary, then why have the Popes at various times and the people tried to make Mary a Co-Redeemer? They keep trying! They believe she is Immaculate, not ever having sin which would have to either make her begotten by God or date back through generations to Adam her bloodline pure of the curse. I would think if it’s possible for Mary to know what they have done to demean her son, God come in the flesh she is weeping! Every yard with her statue is a testimony to this assult on Jesus! Catholicism is a cult and either you except the false man made doctrines, or you remain ignorant and shun your duty to reproof the scriptures and add Church law to the Bible as Mormanism, Adventism, Jehova Witnesses etc. :(

              • Linda says:

                This is exactly the argument for Conditional Security! You sit under a Pastor who espouses this interpretation of the scriptures and doesn’t understan Ephesians. He folows Traditions of men and those are the ones that come out of Roman Catholicism! Slanted to fit Catholic Doctrines.

              • mith says:

                I’m sorry but I have been reading, for hours,what you all have been talking about..forgive my speeling please, I have disability.

                By saying you can lose your faith, or lose your salvation, breaks the very tenet of GRACE..

                We are saved through faith, not of works, lest any man should boast.

                To say tha the free gift of salvation, Christ shedding his blood on the cross, rising, triumphant over sin, three days later, in order to offer us the free gift of eternal salvation, then to say you can lose your salvation (given through grace) birth death resurrection…takes away what Jesus did…et al died for our sins so that we, through grace, can be saved and have eternal life…
                losing salvation and eternal life…well those two statements are in direct conflict with each other….how can we have eternal salvation AND lose our salvation..if it’s eternal???? Makes no sense…thus Jesus was and is the NEW Covenant…under law we could lose our faith, as we had to follow the law, but Christ changed that through GRACE…

                Now I can accept that if someone made a proffesion of faith but later denouced it…that maybe they never re

                • Cary says:


                  I’m not sure what your point is… because you start off arguing against a point, but then later SEEM to acknowledge that the point you’re arguing against may be valid. I understand that you have some troubles, so please don’t take this as a personal attack on your communication skill… just a request for clarification.

                  There are a large number of previously “saved, professing, spirit-filled Christians” who have converted to Islam, right here in the United States, and that trend has actually INCREASED since September 11th, 2001.

                  While an argument might be made that this is not a bad thing, from the perspective of Christian theology (which is what you’re discussing), it most certainly is a bad thing.

                  The argument most often made by “you can’t lose salvation” Christians on this point would be that these people weren’t “really” Christian in the first place. But to me, that’s a pathetic cop-out. The definition of being a Christian has everything to do with free will, a conscious decision and conscious choice. Take away that right of Choice, and you’ve taken away everything that makes the CHRISTIAN ideal of salvation possible.

                  We are not toys. We are not robots. We have free will, and we retain free will as long as we live. And I’m sorry, but people can and do change… and not always for the better… due to experiences, due to crises and stresses, and the like.

                  I can point out a number of former members of the CHRISTIAN CLERGY who have become loud voices for Islam in the United States and in Europe today. Were these clergymen not “Christian” before?

                  The simple point is that once we are God’s, no one (else) can separate us from him. But we… WE, OURSELVES… can. Someone who believes, and has faith, can lose that faith, or can change their mind. It happens all the time, far more often than most of us would like to admit.

                  There is significant biblical support for this position. It’s purely wishful thinking, as far as I’m concerned, for people to say that “you can’t lose your salvation.” No one can TAKE IT FROM YOU, but you can give it up, of your own free will. Because you’re not a robot, or a toy… you’re a self-guiding spirit, made (in this sense) in the image of God.

                  Those who most strongly cling to the idea that “you can’t lose your salvation” are those who would otherwise have to acknowledge that someone whom they know, or knew, has done so. The child, raised in a Christian home, baptised, who has fallen into demonic, occulist practices… but whom the parent can still blindly pretend is “a Christian” because they were baptised as a child.

                  I’m sorry. This is nonsense. We are saved by Grace, that is true. We cannot “earn our way” into God’s approval, that is true. But the terms and conditions of our salvation are extraordinary clear. We must accept, and CONTINUE TO ACCEPT, Jesus, the Christ, as our savior. We must do our absolute best to follow God’s guidance, and to ask God (not “ask a priest,” mind you, but GOD) to forgive those sins. We must sincerely regret and seek forgiveness for our sins… not merely go sin, go do ten “Hail Mary’s” and then go do it all over again with impunity without any remorse or regret.

                  God cares about what’s in our heart, and in our WILLINGNESS TO FOLLOW.

                  You can’t “earn your way” into God’s good graces. But you can accept the gift of forgiveness for your mistakes.

                  And if you cease accepting that gift, and cease doing your level best to do what you know God requires of you (even knowing you’ll fail to ever truly live up to the standard), and embrace some other perspective… whether secular humanism, or Islam, or “radical environmentalism,” or some strange cult, or “the Force,” or whatever you like… if you turn away from God’s instructions, as a matter of willful, conscious DECISION… yes, you can easily lose your salvation.

                  But… you can also be saved again, if you discover that you took a wrong turn and … well.. REPENT of that choice. Just like anyone else can be saved, no matter how terrible their life was previously. A mass-murderer, a serial killer, a terrorist, a rapist, a child-molester… they can change their lives, because they have FREE WILL and FREE CHOICE.

                  And so does everyone else. Free will is what makes good possible… but it’s also what (by definition) makes evil possible. “Good” is simply “what God wants” and evil is “disobedience to what God wants,” when you get down to it.

                  God gave us free will, and we keep that forever. Which means we can choose to change our path. Christians, just like everyone else, retain free will. And Christians can change their path. Including having the ability to leave the Christian path entirely, and to commit themselves to some other path.

                  There is a great deal of support for this in the Bible, but most relevant to this topic would be the concept of “The Great Apostasy,” which is to be a great falling away from the Christian church and flocking to the Antichrist’s religion in the “end times.” If no Christian could lose salvation, there could be no “great apostasy ,” now, could there be?

                  • Melissa says:

                    Cary, I have really enjoyed reading through all these comments! I tend to agree with most of what you write, that is, up until “But… you can also be saved again, if you discover that you took a wrong turn and … well.. REPENT of that choice”.

                    2 passages come to mind when I think of loosing one’s salvation…

                    Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to came, IF they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

                    Proverbs 21:16 The man that wandereth out of the way of understanding shall remain in the congregation of the dead.

                    I believe in free will and free choice… I believe that free will/choice gives us the power within ourselves to walk away from the Lord, turning our backs on Him. However, I also believe that IF we willingly and completely turn our backs on Jesus and the salvation He so freely offered, that we can not regain salvation.

                    Let me be clear… when I say turn our back on Jesus, I am not talking about backsliding… I am talking about the willing, free choice to no longer believe in Jesus, the Bible, God and we embrace a belief that goes against all that the Bible teaches.

                    • Cary says:

                      I know those verses. The one from Proverbs is less strong of an argument, I think. Remember, Proverbs is a series of… well… proverbs. Bits of wisdom, fragments of insight, and so forth. But it’s largely poetic in nature as well, don’t forget, and ESPECIALLY when looking at old-testament portions of the Bible, there are many “poetic” elements which seem to allow a degree of interpretation. This is actually a stylistic element of the written communication of the time, somewhat akin, in my view, to the hyperbole often found (such and such a king was “known and feared by everyone on earth” even though we know, at the time, that those in China, for example, would have neither known nor feared that king).

                      So, in the bit from Proverbs, I see no argument against someone “wandering out” and then “choosing to return.” The verse you raise talks about those who, through carelessness and mental sloth “forget” about what they’re to do. If they “remember” later, and start to comply, I sincerely doubt that this verse would be taken to refer to that person.

                      In fact, we have the very parable I mentioned earlier, of the prodigal son, to counter this. Clearly, the “prodigal son” did in fact “wander out of the way of understanding,” but he returned… and was forgive his “wandering” because he sincerely repented of it.

                      As for the verse from Hebrews.. that’s a bit more problematic, to be certain. It seems very, very clear.

                      But let’s be clear about one thing. Hebrews was a letter written by a sincere follower of Christ to other sincere followers of Christ. It’s not the direct word of God, either communicated by God through a prophet, nor communicated by God through one of his angels, nor communicated by God in his form as Jesus the Christ.

                      This is one area where Christianity differs, dramatically, from Islam. We accept that much of what we BELIEVE about our relationship with God is communicated indirectly, by fallible human beings.

                      If you were to pose a similar comment made by an acknowledge prophet of God, communicating what God had directly revealed to him, which said that, there would be no possible argument. If this were a quote from Jesus, no argument would be possible.

                      But it’s not.

                      In fact, we do not KNOW who wrote the Book of Hebrews. We assume it was written by one of the disciples, or one of the apostles, who lived concurrently with Jesus. We think it’s likely someone who interacted directly with Jesus during his incarnation. But we don’t know who wrote it.

                      What we DO know is that whoever wrote it was a flawed human being, just like you are, and just like I am.

                      We know that the author of Hebrews was communicating, to the best of his ability, his understanding (and I’m saying “his” here because, at the time, the culture in which they lived would not permit a woman to do such a thing, not because I know for certain who it is).

                      In Islam, you cannot question any part of the Koran (which is supposedly 100% direct from Allah). This is one of the biggest issues with Islam, as it’s literally a death-sentence under Sharia to question the Koran, to point out some of the clear contradictions, and so forth. And while Muslims do accept that the Hadith (records of the words and deeds of Mohammed) is subject to error or misinterpretation, many hold that questioning “approved Hadith” is just as bad, and people have been executed, many times, for questioning “approved” Hadith.

                      In Christianity, however, our relationship is not “through intermediaries.” We have a direct, PERSONAL relationship with God… or at least with two of the “aspects” or “facets” of God (Jesus, the role God fulfills acting as our intermediary and, well, FRIEND, and the Holy Spirit, the role God fulfills acting as our helper, guide, and defender). It’s fair to say that we don’t have a “personal” relationship with the side of God’s nature which is the “infinite king and ruler of all creation,” of course… that’s the part of Him which is incomprehensible to us and overwhelming to us.

                      But all of these are “aspects” of God. Think of God like a faceted gem, and us as living in two dimensions (say, a sheet of paper). We can only perceive one “aspect” of God at a time, even though there are (at LEAST) three different aspects of God which are all “God” as a single individual… or perhaps we should say “super-individual.”

                      My point is that God… in the form of Jesus and of the Holy Spirit… interacts with each and every one of us DIRECTLY. We are not expected to accept, blindly, what an “authority figure” tells us. (This is my biggest “nitpick” with Catholicism, by the way… though, don’t get me wrong, I absolutely view Catholics as Christians, no different at the core than I am in what they believe.)

                      So… if one man, doing his best to interpret God’s will on this issue, may have made a statement which seems to be very, very strong, but which also seems to be in direct contradiction to a statement made by Jesus himself (“the parable of the prodigal son”), well, I’m going to listen to Jesus over the unidentified author of Hebrews, no matter how sincere the author may have been.

                      And let’s be clear… the “message written on my heart” by the Holy Spirit, which I’m trying to communicate here, is the same message Jesus was so clearly trying to make in his parable.

                      Make sense?

          • Linda says:

            There’s proof of abducties having an unknown metal chip so hard it took a lazer to cut it and removed by a physician who said it changes the DNA. It also moved away from his probe. It may be that the mark is this chip it also caused sores(?) around the skin area. Rev. says they will have “sores”. No one who takes this chip can be saved it will make them Nephilim/Transhuman. The same corruption in the Days of Noah. So just a thought to provoke us out of the box thinking! Satan is trying always to corrupt the human race. He did before the flood and the bible says demonic activity from the abyss will be loosed and present in those days(Jacob’s Trouble”) Maybe also because they and the world have sought after pagan/false gods. The god’s before in Noah’s days were fallen ones and Nephilim! “There were giants in the land”…This “alien” demons can promise long life perfect bodies etc. strong delusion that they will beleive a lie. “The Fountain of Youth” being promised to our vain population! Eternal life w/o God!

        • John3:16 says:

          Kim, I agree with you. We must repent!!!

          • Linda says:

            What does “repent’ mean to you?

            Repent is Greek and is Metanoia. It means a change of mind. Paul was always declaring to the bretheren and the pagan gentiles to have a “change of mind” what were they beleiving, what were they trusting in? The law of Moses? It was some 400+ years after Abraham by Faith Beleived God. The covenant was made to a gentile a Chaldean from Ur. God must have been preparing his heart to receive! To leave and follow HIM! HE made a covenant to Abraham to give him a land and a heritage, decendants who would obtain that land. He was himself looking for “a Heavenly CITY,not made by hands, but whose builder and maker was GOD. The New Jerusalem! So “repent’ is a change of mind from what you were trusting in before to Trusting in Jesus’s atonement! Believing He IS the Son of God, the Godman! The Annointed One” The Messiah! God with us! You would not due that unless you understood you were dead in your sins,utterly depraved, DEAD w/o hope! In need of a Savior/Grace!!!

        • Eric. G says:

          Very well put bro. Kim

      • Elaine says:

        Yes, the innocent always gets blow up, like the people of Pearl Harbor who were minding their own business, or like when people who have been killing innocent Jews since the beginning. Yes it does happen, doesn’t it? Jesus IS a Jew and He died for the sins of the whole world. How many of you would die for even 1 person? Jesus said I came not to call the righteus but sinners to repent. If you would admit that you are a sinner and believe that Jesus died in your place on the cross and ask Him for forgiveness of sins and ask Him to come into your heart, He WILL save you. Do this or forever know you will be in a lake of fire forever and forever.

    • Glenda says:

      There’s a film about the Mardi and and General Gordon. Gordon didn’t make it and neither did the Mardi. So, the Mardi came and died. He’s been and gone you guys! End of! The Muslims need to join the 21st century and forget all this Koran folk tale nonsense.

    • TwoNickelsandaDime says:

      What would happen if Israel were destroyed by Islam? This is speculative, but with all the revolution taking place today in the Middle East and quite frankly, the world, It would probably vilify Islam as a whole. Why? Because Muslims around the world have been so worked up and have had built up a enormous amount of hate towards Israel and the Israelis that no Israeli man, woman or child would be allowed to live once Israel is conquered. It would tantamount to Genocide, and the Islamic world would party hard over the dead Israeli corpses. The Islamic world would no longer be a victim, but purely the villain in the eyes of the world.
      To add to this, every Israeli adult and young adult would be armed to the teeth trying to fight with their back to wall, with nothing to lose. This will again infuriate any Muslim as they see their dead brothers in front of them, fueling more rage to kill an Israeli. Eventually, gun shots from the Israelis will go silent as ammunition will dwindle away and the brutal close combat fighting of hand to hand combat takes over.
      Once the entire population succumbs to exhaustion, then the brutality starts. All Israeli males will then be beaten to death by pure Islamic Rage. While the Israeli women will be rapped, then beaten down if they have not died from being rapped multi times. The children will definitely be killed, all of them, from infancy to teenage without any hesitation as they would represent the next generation Israelis they would have to fight. Death to the children of Israel will come horrifying as Muslims use knives to cut them up while seeing the terror in the children’s eyes. When there is a lull in the rage, the Muslims will take sport of killing an Israeli. To the point it may be posted on the internet and may even create a compilation of a top 10 killing of a Jew. Once the killing is over, every Israeli corpses will be brutalized, disfigured, disembodied, and then burned.
      It is one thing to cry foul at Israel for counter striking against terrorist action, versus the actual Genocide of a race. By the time the U.N. decided to take action against the Islamic world, the damage would have been done. It took nine (9) days for the U.N. general assembly to decide to enact a no fly zone over Libya against Khadafi. You honestly think that the U.N. can act any more quickly to stop a Genocide against Israel? It would be also noted that a lot of the U.N. members have a very jaundice opinion towards Israel. So there would be an even longer delay. By the time something needs to take place, it would be all over. The Israeli people would be dead, the Islamic world would be celebrating and the beginnings of a new Caliphate.
      But the celebration would be over real quick as the world would condemn the Islamic world for Genocide and crimes against Humanity. For all those Muslims who took part in the invasion would be tried as a war criminal under the Crime of Genocide. For all other Muslims in the region who did nothing, they too will be charged with a war crime as being complicit in Genocide, meaning did nothing to stop it. For those who help arm or supply Islam in the Genocide, may be charged with Conspiracy to Commit Genocide. Many Muslim may be too happy to go to trial for war crimes when it comes to Israel. The Muslim mentality of martyrdom will overrun the system with millions claiming to have killed in the name of Allah. Many will demand the death penalty so they will be martyrs in the war against Israel. This will propel Islam to surpass Nazism as being far worse evil in the world. Even Muslims in other countries will feel the condemnation from their residing countries. Being called a “Jihadist” may end up being a derogatory or disparaging term for all Muslims, like “Nigger” for black people.
      This may end up being a time where the world said enough is enough of Islamic cries as a victim. With but a silent cry of a destroyed Israel, Islam may become the ultimate villain in the world. With world having felt terrorism from the Islamic world, having seen it record of civil rights atrocities, and with the act of full blown Genocide, the world can no longer stay silent or inactive towards Islam. To quote Edmund Burke “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing”.
      Action and arms may be needed to beat down Islam. Israel will become the West’s “Alamo” or the last stand ideology. For Christens around the world, this may be a calling for another Crusade against Islam. Instead of Crucifixion of Christ as a banner for war, it will be the martyrdom of the Israel that will lead the charge.
      Because Islam uses civilians as soldier for the purpose of insurgency and suicide bombings, all civilians will be considered legitimate targets. No longer will the world will be compelled to use surgical style striking when carpet bombing will be deemed acceptable. The whole sale slaughter of Muslims will not just entail conventional means but by also weapons of mass destruction. With the use of non persistent nerve agents, millions of Muslims can be killed while preserving infrastructure. Any sense of mercy will be thrown out as new age Crusaders will chant “Remember the Israelis!” , “Remember our Fallen!”, “Remember 9/11!”.
      Once Sufficient numbers of Muslims are killed, the rage and the momentum will slow down enough to allow Muslims to recede and the rebuilding Israel to take place. But remembering history on how Islam has always broke from peace, the Crusaders will remind the world how Islam has done so in the past and may renew the killings in order cull any form of resistance.
      For all other Muslims in foreign countries, they will be either be accepted, or be under severe prejudice and scrutiny. For those that are accepted, the will have been conformed to the countries customs and fully integrated in their society. For those who do not, they face daily hate, harassment and even murder by their neighbors and fellow countrymen. Their Mosques being vandalized, destroyed or worst desecrated. This will be great dark time for all Muslims around the world.
      Again, this was speculative, this in just my opinion on what may happen should Islam destroys Israel. I ask all Muslims out there: If your wish did come true and Israel is destroyed, and Islamic rage killed all the Jews over there; would you feel comfortable knowing that your religion committed an actual act of Genocide in recent history? Knowing the fact you will be put on the same level or even worse than the Nazi’s? If you can live with that, then go forth with all your hatred, and strike Israel down with all your anger.

      • Mike says:

        The senerio you lay out sounds probable if it were to go down like that, but thats not the way it will happen, the bible is the infallible word of God, the history of how this will turn out is all ready written in stone, if you want to know how the story ends I suggest you pick up a bible and read it!

      • Norm says:

        OK people, this for all Muslim, if you go to the old testament of our bible and read the scripture on the mating of Abraham and Haggi God is letting everyone no that your peoplke will become a great nation BUT that you will always against others and against your selves, You know who i am talking about, you lie amongst yourselves and others you our spreading hate and my GOD THE CREATOR said that this would happen and you run from the truth my prayer for all the lost muslims go out to you.
        My GOD THE CREATOR does not ask to speed up thge proccess of his return but to preach to all nations to who he is and when everyone knows this then he will come again as promised. Now if your madi shows up it will be after you muslims attack israel, but you will fail because Gog(russia) and (ma-gog) you muslims will be stopped from attacking Gods people and the jew will survive, then your madi the anti-christ will show his ugly face and promise everything he can’t fullfill because he is a fake but he will trick many. I pray for all the lost souls please get saved i cringe over the idea of those who denie christ and living in a lake of fire for eternity, the bible states the punishment and is never changing.

      • feebs says:

        Israel will never be destroyed. Ever. She is protected by the living God and will continue to exist long after we are all dead! I just do not understand why there is so much hatred. Most haters of Israel that I have met don’t even know any jews. Ignorance? Listening to all the lies and propaganda of the media? Don’t know the facts? What? I just don’t get it!

      • gregor says:

        First of all the Bible says that Israel will be surrounded by their enemies and that they will come to destroy and wipe them out. God says that he will put a hook in their mouths and drag them to do this. They will be allowed to by the rest of the world because everyone will be against the. It will look like the end of Israel. But in the midst of all this God says that he will defend him people and destroy the invading armies … “and the whole world will know that there is a God in Israel…” At this time a man of peace will come and sign a 7 year treaty with Israel gaurentee their safety {this is the antichrist}. This starts the 7 year tribulation the last days where Revelations and Daniel and Ezekiel speak of. So it doesn’t matter that the Arabs and the Iranians and anyone else are coming against Israel the God of the Bible the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob{Israel} is in control. He knows what is going on and its all in his plan and its happening right before our eyes. Get right with God Jesus his son died for all humanity and he rose again from the dead. He is coming back as conquering King of Kings soon. He will set up his kingdom and will rule the earth forever. And you can be there with us just believe in your heart that Jesus died for your sins that you are a sinner and ask him to forgive you. He will and you will be born again and he will live in your heart and transform you. You will be free. Join us.

    • Soundchick64 says:

      Yeah, the Messiah is coming, and won’t they be surprised when it is Christ Jesus!

    • Gábor says:

      And what will you make when you see people burning Amerika with fire.

    • Dr. I K Frolington says:

      Wow. It is hard to believe that there are some who believe this to be truth. The reality is there is only one truth. Jesus was and is the christ. He has come to save all of us, even the muslims. We, as christians show love and compassion. Islam is full of hatred and revenge. What is easier, to Love or to Hate. I have done both and the later is much easier. It is so ironic to me that the Christian bible is the exact opposite of the q’ran. The muslims are so removed from reality and the creators of this religion could not even come up with their own doctrine. All they did was write the exact opposite of what the Bible says. Very original. Mohammed, if he existed, was just a man. I believe he was never born or even existed. What a travesty. Think about all of the children who are blind because of their fathers. What can we do? I fear there is nothing that can be done. Prayer? I dont know. Prayer is the most powerful force on the planet, but can it save millions of people,,,very quickly??? Watching this video makes me ashamed of being human. Such doctrines are responsible for the death of millions of people and I am afraid, millions more. Islam is the seed of Lucifer himself. Mohammed is a joke and so is the religion. Just laughable that so many believe, so unjust that children are delivered into this circus act. In hell, I believe the falsehoods of this religion will be revealed, and I hope the leaders who have contrived this farce will burn for eternity. If nothing else to justify the martyrs. There is no mohammed, only Jesus Christ who was crucified and now lives at the right hand of God. God show grace to these people and please let them have a second chance,,, please i pray

      • Every one has his right to his opinion ,right or wrong but do you believe in the Prophet Nooh (S), Do you believe in Prophet Solomon (s)A wooden tablet was sometimes back discovered a piece from his boat and the inscription there on deciphored by modern tecniques prove the coming of Prophet Mohammad (s)and his progeny (5)
        names inscribed there in . Same during an excavation found a bejeweled tablet which also indicates the same names when researched by the experts in ancient languages .

      • Brenda says:

        I agree we need to pray for ther whole world =we need to pray that for those living in blindness discover Jesus Christ before all timne runs out–We as Christians are called to pray for our enemies-that they be converted to Christ.
        We as Christians have the most powerul weapon of all -Jesus–and our bullets are the prayers we lift up for the sick and dying and lonely and misquided souls.
        We should pray for those that have no one to pray for them–our one prayer for them may be just the one they need to find Jesus Christ.
        My cousin –whom I love left–or should I say gave up her Christian faith and converted to Muslim yrs ago which broke her Catholic mothers heart. Well we keep her and her children and husband in prayer that they will one day become Christians and except Chirst asd their true Savior

    • The Real Mahdi says:


      • Jes says:

        Hi “The Real Mahdi”
        Let me say this; you are a confused man. You leave one religion and jump into another. What makes you think Buddhism is better than Islam? You are jumping from the frying pan into the fire.

        When you mention you have seen the the universe crawling with life I bet you are doing some sort of meditation that takes you into the astral world. What you are seeing in the universe thru your meditation is none other than demons and every time you make an attempt to visit your universe they are gonna come and get you.

        Everything was created by YESHUA(Jesus Christ). Study the TORAH (BIBLE) where you will find Shalom (Peace) & Salvation that will lead you to the Real Heaven. The Torah is not a religion but a RELATIONSHIP with the ONE & ONLY TRUE GOD.


        • Cary says:

          To understand this post, you must understand the historical context of “the Mahdi” in Islamic faith.

          This man is claiming to be “The Mahdi.” Which either means he is, as I previously pointed out about Jesus, either (a) a liar, or (b) a madman, or (c) exactly who he claims to be.

          You see, the Islamic figure of “the Mahdi” is, effectively, their equivalent to the Christian figure of Jesus. Except, of course, that much of what The Mahdi represents is in direct opposition to what Jesus represents… one might even call him the “anti-Jesus” (or some variation thereof).

          It’s worth pointing out that Islam believes in a figure they refer to as Jesus, but the Islamic “Jesus” is entirely different from the Christian Jesus. He is a prophet, according to Islamic belief, and will be subordinate to the Mahdi when the time comes. According to Islamic end-times prophecy, Jesus will do great miracles, and will eliminate the Jizra (the Islamic tax which is the only current alternative to death or conversion), thus forcing every person on Earth to either convert to Islam or be put to death. In fact, he will directly oversee the execution (by beheading) of those who refuse to do so. This is all in the original Islamic documents… the Koran, the Hadith, and so forth. Of course, by Christian ideology, this man would not be the real Jesus, nor would he be a real prophet, but rather would be a “false prophet.”

          So, you see, the Islamic and Christian concepts are utterly in opposition regarding these figures and who they are.

          If this man claims to be “the Mahdi,” it’s like someone claiming to be Jesus, when viewed from a Christian perspective. Either he’s a liar, or he’s insane, or he’s telling the truth. There is no other real option.

          FYI, there were eleven “Imams” in Islamic history (note the capital I… there have been innumerable “imams”… note the small i…). The last Imam was killed in one of the inter-sect wars between different Islamic groups, and the young boy who was to be his eventual successor was, according to Islamic tradition, carried away by Allah and hidden in a cave, where he has been kept until the time of his return, at the end of the world. This “Hidden Iman” is named the Mahdi, and is effectively the Islamic Messiah figure.

          Islamic belief holds that the Mahdi will return on the eve of the final destruction of the Israel. The leaders of Iran believe, and have stated overtly, that their intention is to usher in the return of the Mahdi, and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad claims that he has been in real-world contact with the Mahdi and is helping to bring about his imminent return.

          When the Mahdi returns, according to Islamic tradition, he will lead an army “from the east, and from the north” to invade Israel. As he prepares to move into Israel, the Islamic Jesus is supposed to be carried (by two angels) back to Earth, where he will submit himself to the Mahdi and begin serving the Mahdi. He will become the leader of the Mahdi’s army, which will sweep into Israel and destroy it, as Islam’s end-time beliefs claim.

          He will then offer the “false idolaters” who worship him to convert to the “true religion,” Islam, but if they do not, he will personally see to their execution by beheading.

          All of this is in the Koran and the Hadith.

          It’s good to understand these things. Let those who have eyes, see what is coming.

          When the invasion of Israel occurs, one of two things will occur. Either Israel will be utterly destroyed, proving Islam to be true, or the invasion will utterly fail, proving Islam to be false, and proving Christianity to be true.

          These things are close… closer than most understand (the “Arab Spring” is in fact the re-establishment of the “Caliphate,” and the returned Mahdi is to be the Caliph of this new kingdom)

          Keep your eyes open, and your minds sharp.

    • Andre' says:

      An ostrich puts its head in the ground when it wants to escape reality. I support the US by the way

    • Will says:

      So Greg, from everything that was shown in that video, them burning the american flag is what you took away from that? wow.. you’re the typical american the extremists believe will be easy to conquer. Oh and Keith, you are the evil bigot. How dare you spout that twisted religious hate rhetoric? If you actually read the bible and not your KKK beliefs book, you would see it clearly says the jews are the chosen people. They are the ones that have endured the hate and malice of the middle east. Jesus himself was a jew and you’re no better than any religious cleric from the video..

    • Linda says:

      Author Will to Greg: read the bible and not your KKK beliefs book, you would see it clearly says the jews are the chosen people.

      Will the remnant of Jews/Israelis out of National Israel are the chosen people. Abaham, Isaac, Jacob chgd. to Israel. National Israel for the most part are there in unbelief!

      Got an update and I have no clue where it’s posted. I’ll just assume for convience you are the Greg. :)

    • Linda says:

      Will to Greg:
      “read the bible and not your KKK beliefs book, you would see it clearly says the jews are the chosen people.”

      Their is a remnant out of National Isreal who are the Chosen People. Abraham was called out by GOD to father a people for Himself. Selected from the heathen, and Abraham in his Faith made was called righteous=BELIEVED in the Promise including a Savior/Jesus. He looked for a city not made with hands(eternal), but the builder and maker is GOD! The remant get the earthly covenant(Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob/ Israel) of the land and kingdom on earth=David’s throne where the Christ, Jesus will rule and rain. 100% fulfilled prophecies up to this date and you can take the rest to the bank!!!!!

  2. Dr Jakl says:

    They gotta go

    • Houman irani says:

      If only someone listened, 70 million lives in IRAN will be praying for anyone who helps !!!

      • John says:

        They will have to help themselves, and though many will die, that is how it has always been for a people to gain their freedom from a tyrant(whether the tyranny be a person, regime or a religion).

        • Houman247FreeIran says:

          Well At least U.S. can take back their puppets from 1979 terror and then the people can gain their freedom, that’s only fair … and we don’t want the 12 billion dollars U.S. confiscated from IRAN in 1980.. and murdering our King?? Ahh who cares, AMERICA kills anyone in it’s way, that’s not New thing


          • lgranados says:

            You people are the crazy ones calling us tyrants why you behead women and children and when you die as a “killer”of innocents you get 20 wives ha ha you are so down.Why fight when we could have peace why???Suicide is wrong wake up before it is to late you will know when you pass on and you will not go where you think you all are going you kill and rape and torture do you call that believing in a God or your god.Please you torture your people and you’ll never realize until your gone what real love is you people “most not all” are mean and don’t even know what love is you beat women and oh well you can’t talk to crazy people peace is what America wants England is the same France Italy all countries that love you hate so who is crazy and sane and you is a peaceful people that fights for freedom Americans Englishmen,Frenchmen,all that are peaceful and good and not murdres like you Iraq,Iran,all of you :most”men are crazy and the only reason women do what you do is because they fear you is that love NO.So all of you go blow yourselves up cause you will not get the 20 qweens or whatever you’ll only see fire or maybe see nothing for all eternity.

  3. Unfortunately this is EXACTLY the kind of pressure necessary to break Jewish Israel’s stubborn refusal to submit to Jesus.

    Let us keep things in perspective. This is the tsunami that will usher in the final harvest for the Lord.

    • Chris Hernandez says:

      You should try harder to substantiate foolish statements like this. Please explain, or stop inciting hatred for God’s Chosen People, His Firstborn Son.

    • Alessandro says:

      For your information.

      The jewish people doesn’t need anyone between us and G-d. So that isn’t stubborn. It is just a belief that a people that now the truth and doesn’t mind about a Messiah.

      You don’t need your belief and your faith. Jesus it’snt a lord or prophet. Was just a jew that forgott the Torah and the divine line with G´d.

      • Steve says:

        Jesus Christ is the most well documented historical figure of all time, and nothing – not even one word – of what He said has ever or will ever fail.A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a good moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic – on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg – or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great moral teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to. (C.S. Lewis) Jesus claimed to be the son of G’d. He said he was the Messiah and was presented as the Lamb of G’d who takes away the sin of the earth. “I Am the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the father, but through me”. “Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”

        • Morgana99 says:

          The problem with all of you is multifaceted: All books on all sides: Written by MAN, no matter what your mama told you, written by MAN. If these books and their prophecies about how your God seeks to treat his creation are true, your God is a joke of his own creation. I believe God has our best interests at heart, and mass genocide of a global scale is not his most creative way to fix things around here. Did I say fix things? Oh yes, I’m talking about you, his followers and your sick agenda to create this reality that is not in ours or God’s best interest. Just a speck of common sense and you would realize God doesn’t operate with threats, Governments and dominators(the type that have bastardized (in the name of translation)your Bible for centuries, leaving you a shell of its original intention, and a book to inspire fear, war, and degradation of man, yes, your book is your whipping post and you’re tied to it. I am absolutely 100% a believer in God, but you people are delusional on a global scale and deserve no say in the future of mankind with your destructive, evil concepts of the future.

          • Morgana99 says:


            • matt says:

              Man identify who is God..Who is he to you. Jesus or who? Morgan99..

              • Morgana99 says:

                Jesus was a man, like he said. He had some good talking points, but mankind ruined his message like a whore’s filthy blanket. If you can turn a catalyst for peace into a worldwide General of death dealing and apocalypse, you’ve taken a poo right on Jesus’ face. Anyone who thinks a bloodbath is Jesus’ final contribution to this planet is completely, and I mean COMPLETELY insane.

                • Cary says:


                  Jesus never described himself as a “good man” or a “good teacher.” He self-described himself as the Son of God (as well as the Son of Man… BOTH were used by him when describing himself, depending on the context he was addressing… “Son of Man” being used to describe how, despite being God, he understood the issues involved in being human… and Son of God when he was talking about how, despite being human, he was able to pay our debts on our behalf.)

                  In fact, he described himself as being God. That’s not “a good talking point” for anyone who is not actually legitimately able to do that. He’d either be mad, or evil, or correct. He didn’t leave us the option of just calling him “a nice guy.” And that was because he didn’t INTEND to leave us that option.

                  Those who want to claim that he was “just a guy who had a few nice ideas” are inventing someone unrelated to who He really was… and who He really IS.

                  Now… Jesus was never a “catalyst for world peace.” Again, he never claimed to be, and never INTENDED for us to be able to claim that. How can I say that so absolutely?

                  Those who claim that this is what he was about simply don’t understand that this world, where we live today, is only a “factory” to so speak… this life isn’t “all there is” for us, and it’s not where we’re going to spend the overwhelming majority of our existence. This is where we are formed into the sort of being which we’ll be for the rest of eternity.

                  Jesus may be the “prince of peace” but remember, “peace” isn’t the goal… it’s only one aspect of the goal. Jesus’ goal is REDEMPTION of mankind (on a one-by-one, individual basis, not “collectively”). We get to choose whether or not we’ll be redeemed… and we have the right to choose incorrectly.

                  “Hell” is basically total separation from God. “Heaven” is basically total communication with God. The other descriptive terms we’ve been given are only ways of explaining, to limited human minds, the general context we’re talking about… an eternity of suffering and disconnection, or an eternity of total fulfillment and joy.

                  God doesn’t SEND people to Hell… nor does he want people to go to Hell. Instead, people who choose to reject God reject the presence of God. Today, as a physical being, you have a degree of contact with God, even if you don’t recognize it. But this is very limited… mainly because you wouldn’t have the ability to choose whether or not to serve God if he fully revealed Himself to you now. But you do have a small “conduit” to God (which is mainly present in what we think of as our conscience, which Christians believe is one of the things provided to us by what we call “The Holy Spirit.”)

                  God doesn’t want us to exist for eternity in total separation from Him. But we have the right choose that… Hell… or to choose to be with him, voluntarily… Heaven. But once our choices are made, they have permanent, irreconcilable consequences. Once someone is totally separated from God, I believe that they are incapable of changing that choice.

                  Jesus… one “aspect of God” (who existed from before the Earth was made, mind you) became human and lived for about three decades as a human being, subjected to all the physical, emotional, and psychological pressures that we all experience. One consequence of this is that God can now see things from the perspective of the creature as well as of the creator… which is why we say that Christ is the intermediary between Man and God. But he also came because God wanted to give us a way of choosing to Him even though we’re constitutionally incapable of ever being “good enough.” We have a debt we cannot pay… and only He could pay that debt on our behalf.

                  A favorite argument is that “Well, why did God mess up and have to fix things?” But that presumes that God exists in time, like we do. Yet we all would have to recognize that God is not subject to linear time as we are. In other words… just because the “fix” came late in the game from OUR perspective doesn’t mean that this wasn’t “the fix” from the very outset. WE pass through time at a constant rate of 1 second per second… but why would you assume that God, who created time, would be limited in this same fashion?

                  How does any of this relate to your point? Well, you think that we’re talking about a Jesus who was a “nice guy with some good ideas” who has been corrupted into a “guy who destroyed everybody.” But you’ll only see things this way if you’ve totally missed the point about who Jesus is, and what he wants.

                  This world… this life… isn’t the end, it’s only the “production floor” for souls which will live forever. I KNOW that I’m going to die… one way or another. So is everyone else. You, Morgana, are going to die, and the odds are that no matter how it happens, it won’t be “pleasant.”

                  But you, Morgana, will continue to exist once that has happened. That’s the thing that Christians believe. What MATTERS isn’t “do you die?” or “do you feel pain?” but rather “what is your state after this has happened?” Will you (and you are a soul, not a piece of meat) be connected, be fulfilled, be in loving community with a huge number of other souls (all of those who are also in the same state… from today’s Earth, from all of human history, and very probably from all other life in the universe as well) or will you be alone, cut off, in darkness, for all eternity.

                  Jesus wants to give you every possible opportunity to make the right choice. We’ve had a very long time to make our choices, and there are a lot of people who have totally committed to one side or the other in this current state of conflict. But there are a LOT of people who are still “undecided” to one extent or another… and Jesus knows that without a “traumatic series of events” some people just sink into complacency.

                  The purpose of “The tribulation” isn’t to create a “bloodbath,” it’s to get the lazy, indecisive, “well, I’ll put it off ’til tomorrow… meantime, have a brew!” types off their butts and make them realize that they have something that they need to do, and need to do soon.

                  And if they die… even die horribly… but they’ve made the right choice, well, they’ll be far better off.

                  Death is sort of like being born. It’s not the end, it’s just transition to our REAL life.

                  The question is… which “real life” do you want? A selfish, vain, solitary existence, separate from God and from everyone else… or a fulfilled, joyous, love-filled existence, where we’re finally able to see who we’ve been training to become during our time as “caterpillars” here on Earth.

                  This so-called “bloodbath” is really an act of generosity… the final chance to “shock” the undecided into seeing something that they’ve been willfully deceiving themselves about.

                  • Morgana99 says:

                    You’ve fully misunderstood me. I ABSOLUTELY believe in God, a great creator. I ABSOLUTELY believe that I will continue on after I inevitably pass. I ABSOLUTELY believe that all beings throughout the universe, and every other atom in it are connected with and as one being, and that being is God, if that’s what you want to call it.

                    My life is lived in service to a divine vision granted to me by the grace of GOD. That doesn’t mean I can’t have a stern vocabulary and mad will to defend our planet from the likes of those I ABSOLUTELY believe got it COMPLETELY wrong about GOD and the destiny of this world. By attracting, these people are creating a “worst case scenario” for any planet to have to go through and have made a mockery of our incredible EARTH, of beautiful mankind, AND of our GLORIOUS LOVING GOD.

                    • Cary says:

                      How have I “fully misunderstood” you?

                      You made a claim that Jesus was “a man with some good talking points.” I responded to that claim.

                      You made a statement that “mankind had ruined his message.” I clarified what that message actually is.

                      You called Jesus a “catalyst for peace” who is being incorrectly portrayed as a “general of death.” I responded to that.

                      My comments were entirely in response to the explicit statements you’d just made. At no point did I infer that you don’t have a belief system… only that what you believe is in contradiction to what Christianity believes, at least insofar as Jesus Christ is concerned.

                      If you believe I’ve misunderstood you on those points, please clarify.

                      I get the impression that you’re some form of “new age” type believer (I hate that term, by the way, but I don’t know a better term… perhaps you can provide one?) Perhaps you’re a Wiccan? What you said seems to conform to what I’ve heard from other people who I’ve known to follow that belief system.

                      In any case, my argument was with your misunderstanding and/or misrepresentation of Jesus, of his identity and his purpose.

                      If you’ve read any of my other posts here, you’ll have noticed that I’ve been clear that pretty much every faith has SOME elements where it agrees with other faiths. There is no need for you and I to be entirely in disagreement, and I’d be shocked if we were, even if we disagree about certain CENTRAL issues. We all have a “conscience,” which is, as I believe, how we describe the Law which God imprints onto our hearts, and how we know what God wants from us. And while there are a few people in the world who are either blind to this, or who have entirely rejected it, most of us feel the truth and try, as best we can (which is never very completely, mind you) to follow God’s laws.

                      So, this is where we disagree… who God is, who Jesus is, and what the purpose of existence is. Your statement makes it clear that you’re focused on the here and now… while Christians believe that this world is merely the “womb” where we are being prepared for our real lives, yet to come.

                      This is why your comments about “Jesus being a catalyst for peace” ring so utterly false. He NEVER said that he was here to “help bring about worldwide lovey-dovey happiness on Earth.” Not once, in any of the recorded records of his life or his ministry, is that ever made a part of his ministry. No, his mission is to save humanity… that is, HUMAN SOULS… not this mere “meat” we’re currently living inside of… from a self-imposed, self-created total separation from God… aka “Hell.”

                      Everything I argued, above, was in support of that point. At no point did I state, or infer, that I believed you’re not a person with faith… in fact, I could tell that you have a belief system. (But then again, everyone, including atheists, do too… there really aren’t any exceptions, are there?)

                      I’m glad to hear that you believe in God. But it sounds like your view of God is more along the lines of what I’d call “pantheism” than what I believe. Sort of a “we are the universe, broken into bits and pieces, trying to figure itself out” sort of philosophy?

                      As I said before, I can respect a sincere believer who differs from my own perspective… as long as that believer is respectful of others and SINCERELY open to and looking or the truth. Even among Christendom, there are differences between us… and I do believe that all morality ultimately comes from God, because it was “built in” to our existence.

                      But this doesn’t mean I don’t think I’m right and you (if my assumptions are correct) are wrong. It just means that I, as a willing servant of God, have an obligation to argue the point with you. And you, if you believe yourself to be a willing servant of God, have the same obligation.

                      Argument is really the best tool for learning, provided that you can do it without allowing personal animosity to creep into the process. Put two competing ideas into the arena, let them hash it out… if they are in opposition, only one can come out intact. But even then, sometimes the real truth which we discover is somewhere in between.

                      One of my favorite fictional quotes is this one: “The truth is a three-edged sword.” This means that there’s your side, there’s my side… and then, there’s reality. Reality doesn’t care if you, or I, or anyone else believes it. It remains reality.

                      Our job is to compare our beliefs to reality. And if our beliefs conflict, to make our beliefs (not ourselves) “fight it out” to see which is in greater agreement with reality.

                      If you are sincerely a believer, discussion cannot hurt, can it?

                      This is one of the issues I have with Islam, in fact… it suppresses opposing viewpoints. Yes, it’s true that some supposedly “Christian” leaders in history have done similar things, but there is nothing in Christian doctrine that tells us to do that, or in fact even ALLOWS us to do that.

                      As I’ve said… one of the most central elements of Christianity is that it’s a PERSONAL CHOICE. There is no “group salvation” at any level… everyone gets to make the choice for themselves as to what they want to believe, what they want to do, and whether or not they’ll follow the “laws of human nature” which God has written on the core of their being.

        • David says:

          Most well documented? You don’t know what happend from 12 to 30.

          • Old Duffer says:

            At the age of 12, Joseph and Mary started looking for a bride. Jesus, knowing that it would interfere with his ministry left home in the dark of night and traveled by camel caravan to the far east. He was called Issa there. He studied and taught until it was his time to return for his mission. And, by the way, his younger brother Thomas (the ‘doubter’) went to India when some of the people asked Jesus to return. He lived in a cave near a village, came to town to tesach and prophesied. One day, according to a story I heard from people from the village, he said something that angered the people and they killed him. Later, they realized he was right and named the town after him. I understand there is in existence a letter in Jesus’ handwriting telling that told the rulers that he was sending Thomas. The documentation is around, just there are biases against the real history within the church. The Indian tribes of the Americas have tales of Jesus’ travels here. Check out He Walked The Americas. Good reading!

        • George Brodrick says:

          Need to capitalize properly. Our Heavenly Father is not same as father. He is Lord of Heaven and Earth, Father of mercy, God of Gods, One God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. He our Father sent Jesus our Messiah who said, The true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth. If you call Jesus, Lord, you will worship His Father in Spirit and Truth!

      • Hebrew Hammer says:

        you feel so safe behind your keyboard… dont you. You will one day know true fear, while witnessing these arabs kill your children… then you will realize the true monsters…

        • Norm says:

          I am an a american christian, I belive in God and he is the only God and i look forward to the day we meet, his son Jesus died for me and you so this meeting can take place. BUT LET IT BE KNOWN TO ALL YOU MUSLIM I AM A REDNECK THAT WIL DIE IF NEED BE, BUT IF YOU EVER SHOW YOURSELVES AND EVER THREATEN ME TO BOW DOWN TO YOUR MHADI IT WONT HAPPEN AND I WILL SEND YOU TO YOUR PLACE BEFORE I WILL GO TO MINE! so please if you want to disscuss all of our beliefs thats fine but don’t ever threaten me because everyone has a will to live and i will fight to hold it.

      • Tecumseh says:

        Yes you do….you just used the hyphen, or the … – ….

        Could it be that God is really just – ????

        As a Catholic I don’t think so…youse Semites…you gotta get in to the second Millenium….

        Think about fixing the drains,have some water piped in to your toilets, then get some decent electricity supplies…..

        And before you know it, you’ll wonder when you stopped hating life…Really you should try it.

      • matt says:

        You are crazy… If you don’t believe the New Testament that is your choice. But Jesus is God in the Flesh. Not who you say.. He is who HE says He is.. His written word.

      • Larna says:

        How blind you are.

      • Hey Alessandro,
        Did anyone ever tell you that you are a complete “DoDo” – why do you walk around with you brain in your pocket? Take it out, put it back in your head, then GET A BIBLE AND READ IT. Fortunately, there are Spanish translations, here you will learn who the JEWS are, who is JESUS(real name YESHUA). And yes, HE was, is, and will always be a JEW … and HE HIMSELF IS THE TORAH, the WORD. John:1:1 In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was with GOD, and the WORD Was GOD.
        BEWARE: If you do not get to know YESHUA now and worship HIM as your God – then when HE comes you will be frying like a donut in the lake-of-fire for eternity along with Ahmadinejad and all those crazies in the middle east… This is my sincere advice to you take it or leave.

      • Janet VanderVeen says:

        Please read the Whole bible ! You are one of the ones Jesus came to die for . Read the book of John .

    • John says:

      Mike, I think you need to have your meds adjusted.

    • Mike says:

      Well put well said, God is going to us this situation to show Israel and the world who’s really in control here, just like he use Pharaoh in the time of Moses to show the Jews is awesome power, once again he will bring them to the brink of distruction, then with a mighty hand he will deliver them out of the hands of the enemy.

  4. sarah says:

    Is this Mahdi being currently trained in Qom?

  5. Mr positive says:

    How is it that in the 21st century people still believe in fairytales?

    • Jesus says:

      Are you saying that Jesus is a fairy tale?

      • Frank says:

        Yes..unless you can prove that Jesus is not a fairytale?

        • llinda says:

          Read The Case for Christ by Lee Stroebel – proof that Jesus is not what you say,a fairy tale? and you will see soon, every knee shall bow, every tongue confess – JESUS will return as He said he would.

          • Ashton says:

            llina…you are nuts. What is it with 90% of the world thinking some “dude” is going to “come back” from wherever the hell he went(no pun intended). Get a life, go have fun, smile…let go. NO ONE IS COMING BACK YOU PANSIES!!

            • Allan Miller says:

              Ashton, remember real well you statement above. Like it or not, you WILL get the opportunit to tell YESHUA/JESUS just how much, and why, you don’t believe HE is real. I pray that by then you will have had an encounter with HIM and realize how dumb your statement is. HE is a lot more fun than you will ever have without HIM.

            • kim says:

              ashton…the muslims say this is holy war….they murder in the name of their pagan moon god allah….they slash the throats of new born babies just as they did in the beginning and GOD said…DEUTERONOMY 32:17 THEY SACRIFICED UNTO DEVILS,NOT TO GOD…..(go to youtube fogel family massacre)…the 12th imam mahdi is the ANTICHRIST OF THE HOLY BIBLE……THE MARK OF THE BEAST IS THE RFID CHIP AND WALMART AND PROCTOR AND GAMBLE HAVE RFID TECHNOLOGY RIGHT NOW FOR BUYING AND SELLING….REVELATION 13:16-17…..(go to FEMA DEATH CAMPS)…WAKE UP….REVELATION IS BEING FULFILLED…..THIS IS HOLY WAR AND ALL DEVILS LOSE IN EVERLASTING HELL……REPENT…..PRAY….PRAY…..PRAY

            • John3:16 says:

              Ashton, I don’t think that Christians are “pansies” as you described them. Some Christians are martyred and tortured for their faith in the LORD Jesus Christ, but they still believe and suffer. If we are incorrect, then when life is over, it is over. However, if we are correct, then you will spend an eternity either in Heaven or Hell.

    • MarkinIdaho says:

      Thank you, you have just fulfilled the prophecy about “mockers” and “scorners” which will abound in the last days. You are a necessary part of “prophecy says”.

      If you really did not believe it, why did you even bother to watch the video? If it is all fairy tales to you, why do you care?

      Jesus Christ is the most well documented historical figure of all time, and nothing – not even one word – of what He said has ever or will ever fail. No one else has ever had a fraction of the impact that He had on humanity. You are the fairy tale, in four generations no one will remember you existed, nor will they care. Give that some thought, and it might change your arrogant tone.

  6. tim says:

    Being a christian and believing in the second comming of Christ…this looks like it could be the anti-christ. Or perhaps it’s nothing, propaganda.
    Very interesting.

    • Tigger says:

      The Mahdi is, in fact, the Anti-Christ. Please read “The Islamic Anti-Christ, which gives a a very well done exposition/interpretation that clearly illustrates the parallels/conflicts between the Koran and other Islamic “holy” writings and God’s Word in the Holy Scripture.

    • Christ = Satguru Nanak Dev Ji was the Second anointed Christ that Christ Jesus predicted and He was the greatest of all the Christs.

      No one is coming after Him as the series of Four Prophets have been fulfilled. Now, Israel is there for the Final Burning – Matt.13.24-30. The Tares are getting bundled up.

      • Cary says:

        That can only be claimed if you disregard Jesus’s OWN CLAIM. He never said that there would be “others to follow” and in fact said expressly the opposite.

        He is the “only begotten son.” He isn’t a “great teacher” or a “leader to take us along the path to self-improvement.”

        Jesus claimed to be THE Messiah. Not “A” Messiah, but THE. He didn’t say that “another will come along after me, greater than me.”

        Tell me, Rajinder, where do you get the idea that Jesus predicted that another would follow after him? This is not what the Bible records, but more importantly, this is also directly contradicted by historical records of the time. Rome retained records, and those records (despite the sacking of Rome centuries later) are in many cases still in existence.

        We KNOW that Jesus claimed to be what he claimed to be. Jewish records and Roman records both record this, as do first-hand accounts from the time.

        So, tell me, where does this supposed “prediction” come from, Rajinder? How come NO ONE outside of the Sikhs knows of this supposed “Satguru Nanak Dev Ji?”

        I’m not trying to insult your beliefs… but rather, to point out that just because another came later and attempted to expropriate the legacy of Jesus says nothing except that Jesus was recognized and lots of people tried to lay claim to his legacy.

        Jesus was COMPLETELY CLEAR about who he was, why he was here, and what his purpose was. He wasn’t “the Islamic prophet who predicted Mohammed.” He wasn’t the Sikj prophet who predicted your Satguru Nanak Dev. He wasn’t the guy who predicted the coming of Joe Smith. He wasn’t an early Scientologist, nor was he an early “Green awareness” faithful.


        That is how he described himself. This is both in his own recorded words, in the words of many first-hand accounts of the time, and in the legal records of the era.

        Any “new truths” about a historical figure which are revealed centuries after the fact are dubious under any circumstances. When they openly CONTRADICT the recorded statements of the figure himself, then the “latter-day revisionism” cannot be accepted.

        Provide PROOF that Jesus claimed what you say (which is in direct contradiction to everything above), please.

        See, what you’ve done is the equivalent of… well, let’s say that the “Church of Bob” were to claim that Satguru Nanak Dev Ji were actually a child-molesting bestiality-fan. (I’m assuming, of course, that this isn’t what you believe about him!)

        From what I can see, I have no fundamental problem with the teachings of this man, with that exception… it is utterly unacceptable to “corrupt” the central figure of another faith. If you’re going to do that, you need some pretty conclusive evidence. ESPECIALLY if the real evidence of the time is quite clear.

        What little I’ve read about him doesn’t seem to say that, anyway. Most of what I’ve read about him is actually not entirely different from what I believe (ie, that God speaks to all of humanity, and that’s where our morality comes from).

        But claiming that Jesus wasn’t THE Messiah, is to simply say that Christianity is a lie. And if you’re going to say that, you’d better be prepared to support that claim.

  7. James says:

    According to the Jewish prophet Daniel, while he was in the court of Nebuchadnezzar in Babylon,Iran is prophesied to become a power to recon with, albeit a short-lived power: “And at the time of the end shall the king of the south [radical Iran] push at him: and the king of the north [Catholic Europe led by Germany] shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.” This happens just before the return of the real Messiah, this world’s only hope, to bring peace and abundant living to all peoples. A man by the name of Herbert W. Armstrong personally told Mr Mubarak and his predecessor Anwar Sadat, these things.

    We have been expecting these events to happen for years. Egypt is mentioned in Daniel by name, “He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape,” (v. 42) as is Jordan (Edom and Moab, descendants of Lot, Abraham’s nephew) and Libya in the following verses.

  8. Leonard Weiss says:

    2012 should be very interesting.

  9. RD says:

    These doofuses have got Bush’s “hook ‘em horns” salute/wave from the University of Texas Longhorns meaning something sinister. Pitiful.

  10. We’ve been warned numerous times
    regarding the objectives of the Muslims. Best we take heed,otherwise our Heaenly Father
    will grow tired of our non-oedience. The the USA & other
    Christian nations will go down as
    warned by our late, great President

    • Morgana99 says:

      Beware false prophets who double as awful presidents. I don’t know what’s with the Reagan resurgence, because I was around when he was president, and there was plenty to complain about. I guess its easy to rewrite and make big glossy observations of the man on his birthday after he is dead(yes, I looked and found no negative press on the guy for his birthday, save for a few blogs) Did we forget all the deep sins of this man??? Get your collective memory back, people!!

    • Hebrew Hammer says:

      yes we need to unite and rid this world of the arab pests…

  11. MrCoffeeCup says:

    The Western world still won’t believe this until our country is in flames.
    Just like Hitler, who wrote “My Struggle” and the rest of all dictators, no one believed them after they wrote their messages clearly.
    Islam will do it’s best to destroy all civilizations, religions, sacred objects, personal freedom,democracy, and replace it with the Sharia Law based upon the Koran. Right now the Sunni and Shiites are battling out who will lead this revolution. Iran will win this battle.
    Once the fighting starts, the blood of commerce, Oil, will not flow bringing in the World powers to fight over the spoils. At least 3 billion will die within the next 6 years. You have been told, it can’t be any clearer.

  12. Bill says:

    Didn’t Hitler get his power because no one could stop the big ball rolling.

  13. johnson says:


    • kim says:


    • But what God has to do with the moral laws as He did not make them but the men. God is concerned with hypocrisy of the heart.

      • Jes says:

        Rajinder Nijjhar,

        I am sorry for you that your religion teaches you that. But fact is the God of Israel, his name is YAHWEH is the only true GOD among all other gods and YES, YES, YES, HE MADE THE MORAL LAWS, if not get a Bible and read it LEVITICUS & DEUTERONOMY and understand it and learn not only the moral laws but all other laws including HYGIENE & the DIETARY LAWS + MORE.

  14. waterstim says:

    Clowns. They are perverted clowns.

  15. S. O'Hare says:

    I have heard the sign is somebody flying up out of a well, now I want you to seriously look at your upbringing and ask yourself were you given a fair and non biased view of how other cultures some older than yours have progressed from infancy to where they are today and ask them what they think of yours.

    • John says:

      They progressed, then stopped in the 9th century and are now trying to return us all to the 9th century. Won’t work. Unfortunately the majority in Iran want these maniacs out too but have not yet gained the courage to make the necessary terrible sacrifice necessary to do so. They had better act soon as they will be at ground zero if they try to over run or nuke Israel.

  16. Jakob Dylan says:

    Get the missiles warmed up. Time to bomb these towelheads into sand…

  17. Jakob Dylan says:

    Get the missiles warmed up. Time to bomb these towelheads into sand… Unload on them now!!!! 10,000 nuclear warheads ought to bring the mahdi to these motherfuckers….

  18. elmira says:

    As an Iranian, I am so ashamed to see these uneducated, dirty animals represent my country. I couldn’t understand 90% of this video since it was majority in Arabic. Iranians are not Arab!

    • edmund M Banks says:

      Well stated! I hope that people look at this and agree with you.

    • Peter Louis says:

      Very well said.

      Once upon time the Persians were a Great Civilization.

      Also, not all Arabs are crazy, but if you live there you must behave like the “Regime” wants or face the consequence.

      Unfortunately, just a few of us are in the 21st century and most would love if we were in the middle age.

    • jazz88 says:

      Americans understand that all national leaders speak for themselves and their agendas, not the people. This is not about the Iranian people. This is in arabic purposefully to entice other muslims outside of Iran to unite in common purpose of chaos to bring the mahdi. American people are not setting National policies either. Any leader that would send babies into mine fields to achieve their agenda and put out this video does not represent anyone but their own agenda. We as Christians support the innocent and oppressed.

  19. John Smith says:

    This film looks like a Muslim extremist wish list. I can only say that if the 12th Imam is to arrive during a great holocaust, then maybe we should give them what they want.

    Ahmadinenutjob is a big believer in the 12th Imam, and cleaned up a route through Tehran where the Imam will travel after rising from his well.

    This film is disturbing and cannot be dismissed. Of course the Iranians want nukes. I would were I them. We should be ready. The confrontation has been coming a long time.

  20. mike says:

    Evil has many faces.
    what happened to logical thought ?
    plain commonsense.
    stuff like this led to the Second
    World War. These people are
    mentally sick.


    • robert savoy says:

      what is sick is that here in america we are fed mis information through tv and news..If you don’t believe me take the time to found out who owns or runs ALL the major networks..Who controls what is taught in our educational facilities? islamists don’t hate technology!! It is the raping of the land and people in order to advance technology is what they are defending against. I am catholic and do not follow the sin on saturday be forgiving on sunday ritual,that modern catholics seem to follow.It is the fact that we can turn a blind eye on the suffering that we help create (at work. and by funding our leaders through taxes and products we buy)we have allowed this to happen them terrorists if you will…but i think they are tired of being terrified.They have been trying to wake us up and realize the truth..we are supporting terrorism as i write this.How many people are dying rite now in order to sustain our way of long as our faces are stuffed our leaders can do what ever they want!!!!

  21. Axe says:

    “These mistakes, one after another, show that the murderous Zionist regime of Israel is reaching the final fall and destruction of its own non-existence.”

    The destruction of its own non-existence?

    I didn’t know the mind could be trained to do this.

  22. Adrian Harper says:

    Can’t believe people are so simple minded to believe stuff like this. What happens when nothing happens? I suppose they’ll say “Oh, we must have misinterpreted some of the signs.”

    The End Is Near! How many religious fanatics have told us this throughout history? Yet we’re still muddling along.

    And surely, most people of Iran *are* the oppressed they talk about — oppressed by the very people who are producing this drivel.

    • WrightON says:

      Right now, there are a lot of plates spinning up in the air, the contents of not just a couple are ablaze. The U.S. dollar is back by puffs of air. I’d say about everything is near to being out and out unstable. Whether you believe in God or pray to the drapes, we ain’t had nothing like this before and it just ain’t lookin’ like it is gonna get any better soon.

  23. Alessandro says:

    AHAHAHAHAAHAHHAAHHHA, Just a poor anti-semitic propaganda, even a jewish child knows that we don’t have any relation with the mason or other kind of secret society.

    • Skylark says:

      Not all of Shem’s descendants became Israelites, in fact the over whelming percent of Shem’s descendants are NOT Israelites. Further more most of the descendants of Shem became the enemies who fought against the Israelites.

      Only a tiny fraction of Abraham’s descendants became Israelites. Abraham had 10 sons with 3 wives (Sarah, Hagar and Keturah). Abraham has about 30 grandsons (all descendants of Shem and Eber) and only 1/30th was the father of the Israelites. All the rest of the Hebrew/Semitic grandchildren produced non Israelite descendants.

      The Israelites were composites of all those middle east…
      Egyptians, Syrians, Moabites, Canaanites, Hittites Chaldeans, Philistines… ARABS ! … Arabs who were NOT the descendants of Shem !
      * The Israelites were a composite of Arabs who were not the descendants of Shem and a small fraction who were.

      Jew = Semite… in the mouths of idiots and liars.
      Jews were anyone who wanted to join the club, they were Babylonians, Khazars, Spaniards… and a whole pile of Euro Babelites.


      Gentiles are simply people who are not a descendant of the man Jacob/Israel. Everyone on earth was a gentile until Jacob had his first son.
      GEN 10:01 Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and to them were sons born after the flood. “The nations of the gentiles ! ”


      GEN 10:05 By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.


      GEN 10:21 Unto Shem , the father of all the children of Eber
      GEN 10:22 The children of Shem; Elam, and Asshur, and Arphaxad, and Lud, and Aram.
      GEN 10:23 Uz, Hul, Gether, Mash.
      GEN 10:24 Salah; Salah Eber.
      GEN 10:25 Peleg Joktan.
      GEN 10:26 Almodad, Sheleph, Hazarmaveth, Jerah,
      GEN 10:27 Hadoram, Uzal, Diklah
      GEN 10:28 Obal, Abimael, Sheba,
      GEN 10:29 Ophir, Havilah, Jobab: all these were the sons of Joktan.
      By the time Abraham ever opened his eyes, there were hundreds … thousands of Shem’s descendants on earth. Except for one, all the ShemITES were gentiles/Arabs.

      Descendants of Isaac were Edomites and Amalakites. They were descendants of Shem and they were not Israelites. Abraham had about 10 sons with 3 wives. They were descendants of Shem and they were not Israelites. No such thing as a Semite existed on the earth before the flood except Shem himself, and none of the thousands of Shem’s descendants until Israel produced his first son was an Israelite.


      Those who do call themselves Jews nor anyone on earth can track their ancestors back 1500 years, let alone 3000 years, so what but their blatant lies connects them with anyone in the accounts of the old testament?

      Now you know the “Jews” are not THE Semites, and you no longer have ignorance as your excuse.
      If you use the term Semitic in conjunction with Jews, know you are a liar.. and know all others who use this term with Jews, are either ignorant or a liar.


      Those who call themselves “Jews” are *NOT the Semites
      * They do not belong to any ethnic group. They belong to a multitude of ethnic groups, homosexuals, Christians, Buddhist, drunks, dope users, Hindus, and even “atheist Jews”… yes, (giggle) there are idiots who are atheist and say they are Jews.
      * They do not belong to any race
      * They do not follow the religion of Judaism
      * They are a mongrel pack of people like the rest of us Europeans.
      * They are a pot of every race, nationality and religion. Like every other people, they have bred with every race on earth.
      * They are atheist, sodomites, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists and every thing between.

      Again, you no longer have ignorance for your excuse.
      If/when the word anti-Semite comes out of your mouth in reference to those who call themselves Jews, look in the mirror at the face of a liar.
      Let one member of this cult on earth produce the evidence of their ancestors back 4,000 years.
      The Arabs are the Semitic people and the only anti Semitic acts on earth is the racist hatred against Arabs!
      Every time you hear someone using the word Semite in reference to “Jews” know they are ignorant or liars.

      If you want to kiss up to the purest segment of Semitic people on earth, go to Iraq and kiss an Iraqi.

      All of these descendants of Shem were Semitic and all of those children’s children were Semitic but NONE of these descendants were Israelites.

      GEN 10:21 Unto Shem, the father of all the children of Eber
      GEN 10:22 The children of Shem; Elam, Asshur, Arphaxad, Lud, Aram.
      GEN 10:23 the children of Aram; Uz, Hul, Gether, Mash.
      GEN 10:24 Arphaxad fathered Salah; Salah fathered Eber.
      GEN 10:25 to Eber were born Peleg and Joktan.
      GEN 10:26 Joktan fathered Almodad, Sheleph, Hazarmaveth, Jerah,
      GEN 10:27 Hadoram, Uzal, Diklah,
      GEN 10:28 Obal, Abimael, Sheba,
      GEN 10:29 Ophir, Havilah, Jobab

      These are only part of Sham’s descendants who lived generations before Abraham. NONE of them were Israelites and none but one’s descendants would become father to Israelites and yet they were ALL Semites.

      GEN 11:10 generations of Shem: Arphaxad
      GEN 11:11 Shem after he fathered Arphaxad fathered sons and daughters.

      GEN 11:12 Arphaxad fathered Salah:
      GEN 11:13 Arphaxad fathered sons and daughters.

      GEN 11:14 Salah fathered Eber:
      GEN 11:15 Salah fathered sons and daughters.

      GEN 11:16 Eber fathered Peleg:
      GEN 11:17 Eber fathered sons and daughters.

      GEN 11:18 Peleg fathered Reu:
      GEN 11:19 Peleg fathered sons and daughters.

      GEN 11:20 Reu fathered Serug:
      GEN 11:21 Reu fathered sons and daughters.

      GEN 11:22 Serug fathered Nahor:
      GEN 11:23 Serug fathered sons and daughters.

      GEN 11:24 Nahor fathered Terah:
      GEN 11:25 Nahor fathered sons and daughters.
      In the thousands of the OTHER descendants of Shem’s grand children

      GEN 11:27 Terah fathered Abram, Nahor, and Haran; and Haran fathered Lot.
      Nahor and Haran were Hebrew/Semitic but their descendants were not Israelite.
      Lot was Hebrew/Semitic and all of his children were descendants of Shem/Eber,
      they were the Ammonites and Moabites… all the Ammonites and Moabites were Semites and Hebrews.

      Abraham had about a dozen named children with his 3 wives and concubines.
      All the Ishmaelites were Hebrews and Semites.
      All the children Abraham produced with Keturah were Hebrews and Semites.
      Esau was a Hebrew and a Semite and all the Edomites were Hebrews and Semites.

      The descendants of Jacob were only a tiny fraction of all Hebrews or Semitic descendants and then the descendants of Jacob bred with all the Arabs around them and so, the Israelites were a composite of the descendants of Ham and Japeth … and all those children produced with the Arabs around them were Semites/ Hebrews.

      Make note how the deceivers mutate words to sell their own propaganda.
      Abraham’s Father, Abraham and Sarah came from what is now known as Iraq. They were not the only descendants of Shem, there were hundreds.. thousands of them. Out of the multitude of ShemITES who were NOT Israelites!
      The UN attack on Iraq was an anti-Semitism attack on Semites.

      When can we expect the JDL to file a law suite against the United Nations for anti Semitism against the Arabs?

      Oh yeah, when Noah and the boys got off the ark, it is written that the whole earth was replenished out of the sons of Noah and their wives, so unless the sons of Shem were poking their own sisters, the grandchildren of Shem were produced by poking their cousins … the children of Ham and Japeth.

      No such thing as an Israelite existed on earth until Israel produced his first son. When the Israelites finally popped out between the legs of Arabs/gentiles, through out the old testament the Israelites produced their Israelite children by marrying the descendants of Ham and Japeth. The farce of the existence of some kind of unique descendants of Shem comes from the out house. IF the bible is true, the Israelites were produced out of a mixture of the descendants of Shem, Ham and Japeth. In the very first book of Genesis the tribes of Judah and Simeon came out of the wombs of the descendants of Ham/Canaanites and the tribe of Joseph came out between the legs of Asenath the Egyptian.


      *Semitic people = some unique race of people. It can not be, goofy. From the very beginning in Genesis, the children/grandchildren of Shem produced their children with the descendants of Ham and Japheth, so no unique descendants of Shem ever existed. The Israelites were descendants of all 3 of Noah’s sons (and wives). The Israelites and everyone else on earth were a mixture of all Ham, Japeth and Shem. The very idea of a Semitic race of people existing can only be considered by the ignorant, the stupid, or liars. Israelites were no more Semites than they were Hamites or Jepethites. Note the affix “ite” which means “of or from.” Moabite, Canaanite, Danite … ite = of or from. When the ite affix is added to a person’s name it means “descendant of.” Semite means of or from Shem… yeah stupid, but all those who were from Shem were also from Ham and Japeth … (check out ancestors of David).

      For every Israelite who was a descendant of Shem there were a hundred more descendants of Shem who were not Israelites AND THE ISRAELITES were a composite of the descendants of Ham, Shem and Jepeth.


      The only reason this cult uses this label is to identify themselves in the assertion that they are something special, different than the rest of we piglets. But in fact they are nothing other than a pot luck of Europeans who can be linked to the rest of the Germans, Russians and Pollock’s. The term Semite does not apply to the cult of pretend Jews, but the term Druids comes much closer.

      Wanna be a Semite? Pay some Blabbite to take a course, put on a beanie and start eating bagels, then you can be a Semite and start telling people which tribe of the Israelites you are from.

  24. What a load of Rubbish,Iran couldn’t run a bath,I slam is a third world thirdrate religeon for simple badward people,start a War they could start a car,they will just dust in seconds,radio active dustin seconds,radio active will never beat the west or Isreal just a dream.go back to Sodomy with little boy perverts.

    • Never underestimate the enemy! If we do not pray & repent then our destruction for abortion, sodomy, pornography etc. is all but assured!
      Have you ever hear of an EMP attack? The last test Iran did exploded in mid air, the U.S. said it was a failure…but was it. An Electo Magnetic Pulse shock wave from some Nukes shot from fishing trollers off our three coasts would paralyize us ans a nation and put us back in the stone age! Better Be Rapture Ready! It is fast approaching and We have all the calculations to prove it! Go to and ask us. Everything is exact! For example Jerusalem was held 8 jubilees by the muslims 1517-1917 exactly when General allenby took it with biplanes flying over..then 1 jubilee later-1967 Six Day War Exactly as predicted Jerusalem was in the hands of the Chosen People of God!

      • cheryl says:

        “If we do not pray & repent then our destruction for abortion, sodomy, pornography etc”

        I have not personally had an abortion, preformed sodomy or pedaled pornography, therefore I will not repent. I do not believe in collective salvation, and neither do the Muslims, they will be judged based on the individual’s deeds and what is in their heart not the collective.

  25. Really says:

    This good be the biggest bunch of bullshit ever discovered. Really, the last Mesiah is coming. These idiots over there need to wake and realize they are living a fantasy only to prove a point to themselves. Dumb ass people in Iran…

  26. Morgana99 says:

    Prepare for war, get war. Prepare for peace, get peace.

    • WrightON says:

      Are you serious?! The Muslims only understand power. If the Infidels look weak, it is the will of Mohammad that after us they will come. Do we just throw our hands up in the air and peacefully share everything we have while singing “Onward Christian Soldiers”? There are not just a few seriously over-the-top fanatics in at the helm, urging the Muslims. Know your opponants, otherwise you sound nuts, yourself!

      • Morgana99 says:

        I’m talking about all of these insane people on both sides who seem eager to share this mass suicide with each other as if its God’s will. I’m just saying, if this whole thing ends in everybody killing each other, God won’t be present. You create your own reality, and we, the people of Earth could have a better future if not for religion! I’m not saying do nothing, I’m saying all the blame for this state of preparations to destroy each other belongs to the followers of these insane religions, not to God. God is a creator being. We coulda had a better world, thanks Jesus, Thanks Mohammad. Sorry we misinterpreted and disappointed you, God.

    • Peter Louis says:


    • Steve says:

      Prepare for peace, get taken over.

      • Morgana99 says:

        Please see my above reply, so you don’t have to bitterly misunderstand me anymore. Now you can bitterly understand me. Thank you.

    • ABCDE says:

      Actually, the opposite is true: Prepare for war, get peace. Prepare for peace, get war.

  27. Val Valano says:

    We are at the door of the Great Tribulation, and while all the so’called Christians are looking for their Antichrist man, the Trib will sweep them away because they turned into lawless ones. There is no one man antichrist!

    Rev. 16: 13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.14 For they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

    Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

  28. mike says:

    i see three problems the Iranian regime is over looking here. the US, Russian, and Chinese militaries. yah sure guys. we’re going to submit to your rule. lmao.

    • joey says:

      I smelled “Russia” in this movie; heard it in the background, it has touches of some old KGB style;with the Chinese pitching in along with some other hidden world figures giving support.Reminded me of a part from 1984; the last iman is the false prophet; did you notice the white horse and rider? what they have done is read back into the Hidith the events they want to post suggest; so people get filled and refilled with the Holy Spirit of the Living God

    • Stealing Fire says:

      The current Iranian Regime has been backed, politically and diplomatically, by Russia and China against the U.S. before. So, the potential might be there for the three to join militarily in a Middle East conflict.

  29. willy says:

    These people have been in the sun way to long!!!!!

  30. Todd says:

    “Men will bury women to their necks and throw large stones at their heads until they die because they had nerve to show their face in public or were accused of seeking their FREEDOM.” ….oh wait, you morons already believe in that, too. Bring it.

  31. Houman irani says:

    1400 yrs in the wahabi Saudi deserts will that , turns you to Snakes, Scorpions and Worste in form of a Human!!! Trust me I am Persian I know what Kind of animals these are.. Hitler was an angel almost next to them, He didn’t rape torture burn people alive which were of his own kind.. They do it to their own family members and friends wives if ISLAM is in any way disrespected my friend.. Yes That’s the word of Mohamad the prophet , ISLAM, RELIGION OF PEACE they say..

  32. Well, all I can say is ‘Bring it On’ – I could go for stomping some towelhead ass out here in the west!
    For the life of me, I did not understand their words on Masons. Yes, they are a rather secretive organization – my father was a member of a Masonic Lodge somewhere here in SoCal, for many years – I never knew much about the organization, but I’ll bet I know a bunch more than the towelheads who produced this video!

    • motomojo says:

      Well Patrick
      I am so glad to hear that you just signed up and are on your way to “stomp some towelhead ass”

      Yeah sure you are… Wow dude your really a bad ass now sit down and shut the fuck up!

      Can stupid people please keep their mouths shut

    • Patrick is a redneck says:

      By the way, those are not towels. I know inbreds are impossible to I will not make you feel more inferior than you already are.

  33. MarkinIdaho says:

    She called the Mahdi the “perfect human”. Interesting term, if that is truly what they believe. In Biblical numerology, “3″ is the number of perfection or completion (eg, Father, Son, Spirit comprise the complete, perfect God) and “6″ is the number of man (created on the sixth day, etc.) “666″ – or the number of the beast, is therefore the “perfect human”.

    Not sure I believe the Mahdi is that person, but I also read the “Islamic AntiChrist” – there are some good points in it.

  34. Annanias says:

    I just lol@those ululate the “coming mahadi” lol

  35. wake up says:

    First, I apologize for the ignorance and rudeness of many of these replies, even though I have nothing to do with any of them! WAKE UP PEOPLE! Dont cha get it? Something is going on and it is huge! So for all ya’ll who dont know what it is…let me clue you in! There is going to be horrible world turmoil ahead, the likes of which have never been seen before, nor will be seen again! Out of this ugly, miserable mess, involving war, chaos, and natural disasters (which will make Japans quake look minor)..a man will arise who has all the answers. The 12th imam or,as the bible calls him, the anti-christ. we will know who he is when he ushers in the 7year middle east peace treaty between israel and 10 islamic nations. the tribulation starts around then. halfway thru the trib, old whatever ya want to call him is going to claim he is God! And in case you think I am full of crap…I have a challenge for you! Prove the bible wrong! So far it has a 100% accuracy rate for prophecies! so i am believing the rest it predicts! next thing on the prophetic list will either be the rapture or a war in which Damascus, the world’s oldest continually inhabitted city, will be laid to ruin…and never inhabitted again. so ya neysayers…when you see either of these happen…maybe then you will believe. or maybe not. God bless you and open your eyes…christians, muslims and allbetween!

  36. yves says:

    one day if man ave the power to love insted of loving the power maby thing will go bether

    • motomojo says:

      Jimi said it best

      “When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace,
      - Jimi Hendrix

  37. Laura says:

    The beast described in Revelation 13: 1-7, that has the 10 horns: they are 10 kings. I think out of all the toppling of leaders in the middle east right now, we will see a 10 nation confederacy rise up out of it; it will be a “Revived Ottoman Empire”, and re-establishing of the Caliphate. It will rise quickly, (like the leopard), and it will be the FINAL Beast system just prior to the return of Yeshua HaMashiach. The “deadly wound” to the head of this beast (Rev 13:3) happened in 1923 when the Ottoman empire was brought down, and the Caliphate dismantled. We are surely seeing the rise of Islam today and the “creeping Shariah law” invading Europe and the US. Time to draw near to Yahweh, to His Torah, and to His son, Yeshua! Pray that many muslims will see the light of Yeshua and come into His true salvation.

    • joey says:

      thanks Laura and tune into 24/7 prayer as your spirit is strengthened in the love of the true and living Messiah who rules even now as the Holy One of Israel

  38. ryan says:

    HaHa at 20:31 they used a photo that looks similar to the shenanigans they pulled when they photo-shopped a missile scene with a few extra missiles.

  39. EB says:

    Jeez, Christian end-timers complaining about Muslim end-timers. How bizarre.

    Does not help the discussion.

  40. amir says:

    when the time comes they will come in numbers and destroy all in their path

  41. Houston says:

    HHmmnn So they show a ringwraith from the Lord of the Rings along with George Bush and some “facts” about the Freemason’s in the same few frames……………Riiighht.
    Unfortunatly, these “leaders” are real and have their own agenda. Isa 5:20 “Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness; Who substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter”! We need to Pray for the people in Iran and other Middle east countries subjected to such as these.

  42. Rex Kramer says:

    Many Thanks to Reza for sharing this!!!

    I cannot believe some of the crap I have read in the above posts…

    1. Pray for the Christians in the Middle East. There are MANY Christian believers there. Stop using racist rhetoric. The guy who shared this video for you to comment on is Persian…

    2. Those who say they believe in fairytales and fantasies are the ones living in a fantasy. This is NO JOKE to them and will bring MUCH death and famine! More like a nightmare!!!

    3. This is the Biblical Antichrist! Be prepared for the Rapture is soon coming and we will meet Jesus in the air!!!

    We were all told this in the Bible and we CANNOT STOP what is inevitable! Pray for ALL MEN to accept Christ the Messiah as time is ticking down…

    • Steve says:

      Amen Rex! This is a sign of the times we are in and a foreshadow of the end of days. What is going on in the world right now is amazing. Natural disasters beyond belief. Wars and rumors of wars. Etc… These sons of Ishmael are helping to open the eyes of many unbelievers to see that what the Bible says is true. I pray for blessing and protection for Reza, and I thank him for sharing this video!

  43. parker says:

    Most of the major problems that exist currently and will probably result in the annihilation of much of mankind are due to the belief in man created myths. There is a force NONE of us can understand and we should stop trying to it. We are far too small a creature to actually explain what that force is. Religion is the attempt by all these different religions to explain it. We need to stop this nonsense.

  44. Rafael says:

    It is so funny that these lunes honestly believe that the real Messiah will come from some country. The Bible says that when the Son of Man (the true Messiah)returns, every eye shall see him, Rev. 1:7 comming in the clouds with Power and in the Glory of his might. And although the Jews rejected him, and will go through great Tribulation, Jer. 30:6, They will be restored to their land, not destroyed like these idiots think. Regardless, what anyone thinks, the promises to Abraham are a covenant promise, and the throne of David will be reinstated, and the Jews will be restored to their land, like the valley of dry bones Ezequiel was TOLD to prophesy to. These jerks can sing all they want to, and jump all they please, but they cannot defeat Yahweh. the God of the Jews and the Christians. The promise was made to Isaac, not to Ismael, who was sent away with Hagar his mother. Ismael mocked Isaac, from the very home the lived in of whom all these radical haters of their own people descend. Just listen to them closely and one can almost taste the hate for Jews and all people alike. It’s no suprise they are the way they are. They are literally against the whole world, and the same way they control their women and treat them like dogs, hiding behind bedsheets, looking out through a tiny hole, the want to control the entire world. Not!!!!!!!!!

  45. Parker says:

    The belief in man created myths are the cause of most of the major problems that exist in this world between peoples. And sadly, those beliefs will probably result in the annihilation of much of mankind.

    There is a force NONE of us can understand and we should stop trying to it. We are far too small a creature to actually explain what that force is. Religion is the attempt by all these different religions and peoples to explain it. And everyone thinks they are right. We need to stop this nonsense. But we won’t.

    I am perfectly fine not knowing what that force is and I am perfectly confident that I will become star dust upon my death just as all before me have. It is sad to think that we as a species have not advanced through this nonsense. Keep on believing and you will surely see the seeds of your self fulfilling prophesies grow to full maturity and you will destroy all we are and all we have become in the name of myths.

    I predict that after all of you have killed each other off religion will be abandoned for a long time…until some controlling nutcase makes up a story and it starts all over again.

    That is all.

    • joey says:

      parker you have to wake up and get your self built up in your heart ;this stuff is real it is a real spiritual battle fought in this physical realm ;yes all religion is made up stuff with spiritual truths and falacies mixed in ,this is sure fire in your reality of the here and now that spiritual forces are at work ;but the living Messiah the Resurected One the Saviour is not a religion niether is His word ;the real deal does not need a religion ;even though man has made His word into one. He is not a force He is the Living God ;this video we all are commenting on is evidence of the reality of the end times ;get yourself right with the Prince of Peace

  46. Rafael says:

    Its a mockery to the King of Kings and Lord of Lords to equate the coming Immam to Jesus Christ. The show a persona riding a white horse as an imitation to the real thing. Rev. 6:1, begins to describe a rider on a white horse. A pure imitator and an impostor, thinking he’s going to conquer the world, but, behold we see him, with the false prophet in the lake of fire burning like a hot dog. Lets just prepair for what is coming, for it is written, that Antichrist is already in the world, and the restrainer, is at the present moment restraining, the manifestation of the “son of perdition”, whom at a set time must come. 1 Tes. 2:1-15

  47. abdullah says:

    The video begins with the death of King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, revolts in Egypt and Yemen, and ends with Ahmadinejad and Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah leading Muslim armies to conquer Jerusalem.

    so ahmadinejad,iran president,you want king abdullah dead?you want to kill him or you already has assasination plan to king abdullah?

    • Peter Louis says:

      Great Abdullah!

    • joey says:

      your seeing it they are reading there own current events back in time its a great trick of espionage ,its a form of mass post suggestion ;it is the same as advertisements of products; same as media to promote agendas to sway the mind and soul; music is always used; people have got to be on the solid foundation of Truth and there spirits made alive by the Grace of the Living God , there spirits not there soul or mind

  48. ATHEIST says:

    Its Sad to see almost everyone in this forum leaving replies missed the mark and importance of this video. Its this fucking arrogance and hatred created by religion (all religions) that is going to fuel the flame on both sides and destroy this wonderful planet we inhabit. I have a great solution for everyone in this conflict. Why don’t all you muslims, christians, jews who TRULY believe in heaven and eternal afterlife just fucking die and leave this beautiful planet of ours to atheist like me. I only believe I have 60 years to enjoy & you have the afterlife, so don’t be selfish. Do us all a favor and go to your messiah and fuck yourself with your messiah up there in heaven!

    • Kim says:

      Hey Foolish atheist one day you along with all your other ignorant, full of yourselves atheist misfits and any one else who denies Christ and him crucified will one day be on your knees confessing Christ as Lord and Savior before you are cast into the lake of fire. I’ll pray that God will reveal his self in someway to you before it’s too late.

    • judith says:

      Have you noticed that atheists have foul mouths, are totally blasphemous, but of course that’s not surprising when you consider who their “god” is.

  49. Sassan says:

    First off, this further demonstrates the true evils of Islam and how it has moved beyond a faith into a deadly virus that continues to be passed on generation to generation as long it is thought as an “ideal” not to have your own brain and thought processes but rather than true nonsense. I would like to note that as an Iranian who spent over 8+ months in Iran as of just recently, the VAST majority of Iranians to not believe in the hidden imam which includes religious people like my grandparents. Saying this, I would like to give some advice to my fellow westerners: your primitive scripture and text is irrelevant into the 21st century just as the primitive nonsense text of Islam. It is true, Christianity is more benign and less violent than Islam and Judaism at least allows you to question your god; but if you believe in god, that is your choice but don’t try to quote nonsense scripture which was the creation of illiterate scribes of the time. It really makes you lose your integrity and intellect when you make such biblical or torah claims. Christians had a reformation and an enlightenment and most Christians are benign and base their realities and decisions for the most part IN THIS WORLD, not a “thereafter” which is so prevalent in the virus of Islam which can be seen through the value of martyrdom and the notion that this life is “not really worth living”.

    • Rusmax says:

      As a born again Christian of 60 years and having lost everything I had when I was kicked out of Iran in Feburary 79, I agree with friend Sassan. Leave your religion out of this conflict. There may be some scripted references to the end time. But since Jesus {Isa} didn’t know when, how can we? Best to compare the madness of a Hilter or a Stalin and a Pol Pot with this coming events. It is a story of the age old desire for power that drive these wannabe world leaders.

      • Sassan says:

        Rusmax, your gentle but beautiful and elegant commentary are very much appreciated. I thought I would mention that; you are clearly an amazing person with great integrity and class.

  50. Paul says:

    Such a culture of death and destruction. Sick. Of all the world’s religions Islam is by far the sickest. No wonder their children have no hope, no happiness, no satisfaction. Mentally abused and complete deranged by this culture of killing.

  51. Adina Kutnicki, Israel says:

    Well, from my bird’s eye view in Israel I have this to offer-the ONLY thing of substance is what the Mossad and its relevant security arms are doing.To wit, does ANYONE with an ounce of sanity believe-after knowing what a madman already did to half ! of world Jewry-that our Dolphin, nuclear tipped subs are not on the ready?The only question is-when will they be deployed?By the way, I thank those who ‘spirited’ this video out of Iranian hands for all the public to see.Why?Because no sane person-other than inveterate anti-semites-will accuse Israel of ‘war crimes’ once they unleash countercity and countervalue pre-emptive strikes.
    The Iranian regime wants to usher in the end times, so be it, but it will be their end.Guaranteed.
    Our leaders will behave madder than dogs….

  52. irani says:

    Mehdi soon Jesus will come along
    America long ago for this rise is planned, said a man comes from the East to fight with him
    But some Christians vowed real close with him
    Color is another world
    Pray come Mehdi

  53. Luxis says:

    Have you posters taken some bad drugs? Remember that religion- not spirituality- is the opiate (or maybe nasty crack) of the people. Wake up. We are born alone, we die alone. What can be constant is love. That should be good enough. Why all this reference to folklore and nightmare tales? Religion generally tends to justify hate more than love. If it’s love you are after, then love. You don’t need to belong to a religion to do it. Don’t hate and call it love in the name of xyz religion.

  54. Bob Ashworth says:

    Islam will be destroyed and truth will be established. Either they are right or the Bible is right. Ps.83 is the 1st war with Israel´s neighbours who are filled with hate and want to destroy Israel completely so it is no longer a nation. The Bible says that these nations are so defeated Israel is able to demolish the wall and live in peace.

    Iran is not part of this attack though no doubt she supplies a lot of kit. Israel prospers becoming a rich oil and gas exporter with increased borders. Then Russia,Iran and the Islamic nations not involved in the 1st war launch a surprise attack with the goal of spoils of war. Only 1/6th of these armies survive because God intervenes and destroys them. This is the better known Gog-Magog war. It is this intervention that turns Israel back to Jehovah God of the Law, but not to Jesus. They turn to Jesus when 144,000 amazing evangelists warn the world of Jesus final return.

    There is no Islamic Antichrist for he does not worship the god of his fathers and declares himself God. No Muslim can worship a man.

    The world is in the process of being divided into 10 economic regions. When this is complete the Antichrist will rise up to take over the world and not Islamic countries.

    Now the signs Jesus told us to watch out for are all around warning us He is coming for the church so it is not subject to his wrath. Then the great 7year tribulation will come. If you find the love of Jesus now you will escape this horrific time. Google Hells Best Kept Secret.

  55. Sam says:

    Will the 12 .th imam stop the practice of raping your sons and daughters beating your wives, and basically keeping yourselves in the 2000 year ago mindset. You have no freedom. You have dictatorships, terrorist who kill innocents way more than our mighty military of the US. Come
    With us to the democratic democracy kind of government instead of sending children to carry weapons and your women to blow themselves up( do they get 72 virgins) I bet the Muslims have 72 virgin men when that get to paradise because it is common practice for you nice Muslims to rape boys. I like Muslims. I hate the Middle East. You will never take my freedoms away with an half cocked nuke. You will be a person glass desert if you try that crap on isreal. GODS ARMY. why do you think ME mulims can’t fight them. Because god looks down on random murderers adulterers and boy rapers … Alll true with evidence.

    • joey says:

      I don’t think people understand the glass desert concept presented here ;there are nukes that blow out the radiation and all that is left is sand for miles pure and simple

  56. Sassan says:

    THE BIBLE IS NONSENSE, THE QURAN IS NONSENSE, THE TORAH IS NONSENSE. The difference is that most Christians do not take the bible literally as the literal word of god. In addition, Muslims in general (those who are religious) surely do take their religion too seriously but you see, they have no choice. It is a requirement of Islam through the quran and hadith. In addition, the quran is a much more evil book than the bible; the old testament is pretty evil as well and ranks there with the quran, so people!!!! No end of days is coming! No nonsense…..LET’S START VALUING SCIENCE, LOGIC, AND REASON away from this nonsense dogma. The only way “an end” will come to humans is if we will kill each other off with nuclear weapons due to religion (unless an asteroid hits us which is unlikely)

    • Del says:

      I’m not saying this meanly…or without heart. But the exact thing you are saying is what, we Christians believe- the True AntiChrist, prophesied through the Biblical Scriptures will use to unify all those opposed to religion. He will come and say the real problem is religion. He will come and say the way to “True” peace is through reason and by doing away with all religion…he will create One Religion for all to follow. He will create false peace for a time and then will turn on all his followers, because he will be Satan incarnate. He has One agenda and that is to destroy all people. And he has greatly fooled so many with so many deceptions…he is setting everything up just so for his time to come and rule…but it will be short. Christ will return and make all things new.

      • Cary says:

        Well, Del, though I’m a fellow Christian and I agree with much of what you say, I would caution you to be a bit more careful about expanding from what we really know.

        We know that the AntiChrist will claim, not to oppose all religions, but to oppose Christianity and Judaism. But even in those cases, not to oppose what I’ll call “Christianity in Name Only” or “Judaism in Name Only.”

        As far as opposing anything else, well… there’s strong reason not to believe that, as we’re told about the false prophets and so forth, and that the Antichrist will actually (falsely) declare himself to be God at one point.

        For those of us who believe Christianity to be true, and Judaism to be true (albeit incomplete)… we have no reason to believe that the Antichrist will oppose ANYTHING else.

        Have you seen those “coexist” bumper stickers? That’s the sort of thing we’ll be seeing from the Antichrist. The interesting trick will be to see how he’s able to merge that along with the “darwin fish” guys…

  57. ed says:

    sure is a lot of western MTV style video editing going on there.

  58. Bob says:

    The end times are prophisied both in the Koran and the Bible. Belief in Christ as the son of God is the only way someone would ever believe the Bible. It is nonsense to unbelievers. It represents rubbish. You will never convince non Christians of its’ relevence. It seems, in my opinion, based on my study of the Bible, that Islam is a satanic religion. Islam is anti-Christian. If a religion is anti-Christian, according to the Bible, it means ANTI-CHRIST!! It’s pretty simple when you look at it according to scripture. I also believe that the angel of light that appeared to Mohammed was the very angel of light mentioned in the Bible. God created his most beautiful creation…Lucifer, an angel of light. Islam is a copy-cat religion of Christianity. Satan is the father of lies and attempts to get as close to the truth while still lying to humanity. Once you understand his ways, he becomes fairly predictable. Never telling the truth; but close enough so that someone unfamiliar with God’s word will find it plausible. I realize that many of you will find my beliefs intollerant but according to the Bible, there is only one way to the father(God), and that is through faith in Christ Jesus, His only Son. I pray that the Holy Spirit will touch the hearts and minds of some who hear my ramblings. Christ is truly the only way that leads to salvation.

  59. Harshal says:


  60. ecco1347 says:

    the moslems play 100% the illuminati game.
    bravo its coming the world war and the humans reduce to 90% and the georgiga guide stones are complete.
    what stupid peoples.
    so so so stupid.we need no war,we need peace and freedom but the molems need the mhadi and the illuminai needs the new world.

    i piss of this fucking shit,.

    millions of peoples are death in some months.
    haarp,chemtrails,religion,poison in the food and the comming world war killing so mutch peoples and children.

    all this fucking shit comes and burn the humans to ashes.

    so stupid humans.

  61. Peter Louis says:

    Sassan is right.

    Sadly, that’s all about to survive in a place with limited resources and ignorant people that jeopardize their own lives and ours refusing to reach the 21st. Century.

    OK. Democrats are helping too.

    But Atheist made a very good point: if all these religious fanatics (sorry for the pleonasm) handle to kill each other and just each other, they will fulfill their dreams and this Planet will be a much better place to live in!

    • matt says:

      Jesus said not to murder.. If you could read the Ten Comandments you would see a difference.. How many christians are doing good in this world? Are you blind to this good? Jesus is the Prince of Peace there is no other…Sassan, Peter Louis. Neither of you can change the Truth!

  62. alex serfes says:

    The trueth is this Jesus is Lord. There is no other name under heaven for man to recieve forgivness of sins. For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, Non are rightious no not one. The united states doesnt have a free ride on the rightiousness train and neither does islam. Repent and be saved for the end is near. Nearer than you could think.Jesus Christ be praised.

  63. Cruise Missle says:

    SASSAN has the right idea. This video is totally ludacris. If these guys are running around trying to kill all the Jews because of a f’n fairy tale then they deserve what they have coming. If they want to sit there and burn our flag they should go down.I think its great that they are using YOUTUBE, THE INTERNET, COMPUTERS,and ELECTRICITY to talk s**t on about the US. Guess what ? WE INVENTED ALL OF IT!WINNING!We took down your nuke plant with a computer virus. Look at history and see what happens when Americans pull together during a real war effort. Just hope you are not on the other end…

  64. Morgana99 says:

    Hey! Let’s put the second coming of Jesus and the coming of this d**k in a ring together. That way they can take out all of their destructive evil on each other, rather than dragging us and our children into their desperate bids for world domination. Winner gets the privilege of us thinking he’s “more powerful” than the other, which is all these scum really want. Wheat is the benefit of destroying the world and killing Hundreds of thousands? To say, hey our bulls**t prophecy was right? How about we all look collectively at these “prophecies” and just say “no” God, that’s not the future for us. You did a great job for a while, but now its time to step aside, your plans for us are self serving and lame.

  65. Ali Adams says:

    Evidence for 31 Disasters in 2012
    It may not be the end of the world but 31 events are coming throughout 2012 to reshape the world.

    God in the Quran points to 31 events in 2012 with exact dates and locations.

    Read on to learn where is safe and where is not!

    1) The Quran literally means “The Readable” which suggests it is readable despite being encrypted.

    2) Chapter #1 The Opener (NOT The Opening) is The Key to decrypt encrypted messages in The Quran.

    3) Chapter #55 The Merciful points DIRECTLY to 31 events from 7th January to 7th November 2012 along 31 given latitudes.

    4) Each of the 31 events will last for 4 days and thus sweep the Earth along its own latitude 4 times.

    5) All/Most/Many places of worship around the globe will be deliberately missed and thus become safe havens to shelter people who will finally realize that they all worship the same ONE GOD regardless of their religious flavour!

    This will have a huge unification force for the survivors to rebuilt Earth with total love and selflessness guided by the Final Testament, The Quran.

    Please PRINT OUT this table in case we lose electricity.
    (God Permitting)
    2012 Event Latitudes and Dates
    13˚ 2012-01-07 ― 2012-01-10
    16˚ 2012-01-22 ― 2012-01-25
    18˚ 2012-01-30 ― 2012-02-02
    21˚ 2012-02-10 ― 2012-02-13
    23˚ 2012-02-18 ― 2012-02-21
    25˚ 2012-02-28 ― 2012-03-02
    28˚ 2012-03-13 ― 2012-03-16
    30˚ 2012-03-27 ― 2012-03-30
    32˚ 2012-04-04 ― 2012-04-07
    34˚ 2012-04-24 ― 2012-04-27
    36˚ 2012-05-06 ― 2012-05-09
    38˚ 2012-05-16 ― 2012-05-19
    40˚ 2012-05-28 ― 2012-05-31
    42˚ 2012-06-07 ― 2012-06-10
    45˚ 2012-06-22 ― 2012-06-25
    47˚ 2012-07-01 ― 2012-07-04
    49˚ 2012-07-07 ― 2012-07-10
    51˚ 2012-07-14 ― 2012-07-17
    53˚ 2012-07-23 ― 2012-07-26
    55˚ 2012-08-05 ― 2012-08-08
    57˚ 2012-08-18 ― 2012-08-21
    59˚ 2012-08-25 ― 2012-08-28
    61˚ 2012-09-03 ― 2012-09-06
    63˚ 2012-09-10 ― 2012-09-13
    65˚ 2012-09-15 ― 2012-09-18
    67˚ 2012-09-22 ― 2012-09-25
    69˚ 2012-09-30 ― 2012-10-03
    71˚ 2012-10-07 ― 2012-10-10
    73˚ 2012-10-15 ― 2012-10-18
    75˚ 2012-10-25 ― 2012-10-28
    77˚ 2012-11-04 ― 2012-11-07
    with a −89 / +67 days error margin
    due to Hijri calendar errors.

    Check you city danger level (GREEN, YELLOW, RED) using the free software at

    Be a guiding light!

    Ali Adams
    God > infinity

    2012, Warnings, Danger Latitudes, Prime Numbers, Islam, Quran.

  66. Cary says:

    Those who believe that all of this is “superstitious nonsense” should take a step back. They may not believe what they’re shown… that’s called SKEPTICISM and that’s generally a healthy attitude. But outright REJECTION of something… ANYTHING… without having any firm proof that what you’re rejecting is untrue? That’s merely another form of “religion.”

    In other words, those of you who claim that “believe in God is nonsense” cannot support that belief… it’s something you believe, solely based upon FAITH. Yes, “Secular Humanism” is a religion!

    It may not have a “God figure” as part of that particular religions belief system. But then again, neither do many of the more popular Eastern religions, do they?

    Secular Humanism has unproven beliefs, it has its own cosmology, it has its own “prophets” (most notably Charles Darwin, but he’s not alone by any means), it’s own “recruitment system” (the enforcement of Secular Humanism in public education).

    And Secular Humanism is probably the single most INTOLERANT belief system out there. It’s the only one which truly requires you to accept that EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH YOU IS ENTIRELY WRONG ABOUT EVERYTHING. No other belief system is that intolerant. So it’s always amusing to see the Secular Humanists claiming that one of their most important attributes is “tolerance,” isn’t it?

    Ladies and gentlemen… there is more reason to believe in a God of some form than there is not to believe. The real question is “what sort of God are we talking about?”

    For the Secular Humanists, they believe in “God” but they believe in God as being THEMSELVES. THEY, you see, are “God.” And they have the right to act, as Gods, over those of us who are “lesser” than they are.

    For Islam, they believe in a God who is a CORRUPTION of the Abrahamic God which both Judaism and Christianity share. In Pre-Medina Islam, Mohammed claimed that he was the “fulfillment” of both Judaism and Christianity. Only after he was rejected, after his attempted coup in Mecca was defeated and he was forced to flee in defeat to Medina (at the time, an oasis community where nomadic tribes would congregate from time to time).

    At Medina, he decided that the prior, “agreeable” attitude towards his opponents was wrong. He attributed his prior statements to having been deceived. His “enlightenment” was supposedly due to having been visited by an “archangel of light” who spoke to him. When he rejected his own earlier statements, directed towards coexistence, he claimed that he had been deceived when Satan had pretended to be an angel of God and had given him false information.

    Remember Salman Rushdie? Remember his book, “The Satanic Verses?” This was him discussing how Mohammed had done this. And the Islamic rulers (the clerics, by definition, ladies and gentlemen, don’t forget) had declared a Fatwah death sentence on him… which he is still subject to, of course.

    So… Mohammed himself admitted to having been “directed by Satan” at some point. The only question is… was there ever a time when he WASN’T being directed by Satan?

    I’ve read the Koran. I’ve read many of the supplementary documents as well. I’m not as expert as some are, but I know what it says.

    Any who faithfully follow the Koran… which is, by definition, how you define a true Muslim… must believe in what the Koran says. Which means that only Muslims have any rights, and the “commandments” towards justice, charity, honesty, etc, in the Koran ONLY apply to “fellow Muslims.” They are COMMANDED TO LIE TO THE REST OF US. They are COMMANDED TO DENY NON-MUSLIMS THEIR RIGHTS. They are, in fact, commanded to put non-Muslims “to the sword” if we refuse to convert.

    There is an option of Dhimmitude for a short time, when Muslims require our skills or abilities. A Dhimmi has no legal rights under Islamic law (aka “Sharia”). And this is currently practiced throughout the entire Islamic world today, to one extent or another. And Dhimmitude is not permitted to last forever… only for as long as the Dhimmi’s services are not able to be provided by a proper Muslim.

    My point? These people believe this stuff. They are DEDICATED TO IT. Not just a few people, but anyone who truly follows Islam as spelled out by the Koran. (Not everyone who lives in a Muslim culture fully submits to the Koran, however… yet they are still “Muslims” and are forbidden, upon penalty of death, to even consider any other belief system… yes, including “Secular Humanism.”)

    Christians, Jews, and Muslims all share common elements of our beliefs. Christians LOVE the Jews… we believe that they’re at the center of our own beliefs as well. Jews don’t necessarily care for Christians, but they know we’re not a threat to them (and before anyone brings up this lie, HITLER WAS NOT A CHRISTIAN!) But “Koranic Muslims” believe that Christians are the enemy and must be defeated and subjugated… and that Jews are EVIL and must be killed, to the last man.

    We all have prophecy which is being fulfilled. We all see the signs. ONLY the “Secular Humanists” somehow fail to see the remarkable, FIRST TIME IN HUMAN HISTORY fulfillment of many of these prophecies.

    Jewish Prophesy is coming true. They see the restoration of Israel, many of the prophecies in the Torah are being fulfilled now… they’ve already prepared to rebuild the temple. (There’s a warehouse with the materials required, standing by in a safe location… they can have it complete in just a couple of months once they start!)

    Israel hasn’t’ started this yet because they have something to lose. It won’t be until after the Islamic nations attack Israel (attempting to destroy it, although they WILL FAIL)that Israel will cease trying to appease the Islamic nations, reclaim their territories, and rebuild the Temple… the only remaining unfulfilled requirement for the beginning of the “end times” according to Christian belief.

    Islamic prophecy truly is coming true as well… but it’s a corrupted prophecy. Hell itself is driving Islam… and the Lord of Hell isn’t exactly weak, though we all know who will win in the end, don’t we?

    So, watch for the attack on Israel. This WILL HAPPEN, and should happen within the next 18 months, and most likely sooner rather than later.

    If Israel is destroyed… you will know that Islam is true, and Judaism and Christianity are both false.

    If Israel is victorious… you will know that either Judaism or Christianity is true, and Islam is false.

    If the rest of Christian prophecies are fulfilled, then the choice between those two will also be clear.

    The only real question in my mind is whether or not the “Secular Humanists” will see all of this and will still continue to deny that it’s anything but random coincidence.

    • Sassan says:

      Cary, what you wrote in the time you took was all pure nonsense. You claim atheists or skeptics have “faith”. What utter ridiculousness. Why do I reject these primitive and nonsensical texts?? Because they are nonsense and not based on any scientific evidence or knowledge….rather by illiterates of the time! To claim I cannot disprove a god is technically true; well, can you disprove to me that the “Spaghetti Monster” doesn’t exist and control all world affairs? You can’t disprove a belief in something that is based without evidence and violates not only the laws of physics but violates the basic principles of the scientific method. There is no god, but to base your life on “prophecy” and “ancient scriptures” really shows your ignorance. While most people believe in god (that is fine, it is the weakness of most humans in facing our mortality) but believing in nonsense and dangerous scripture really goes further and shows that your daily thought processes are not healthy and based in reality. Actually, they are more aligned to the Islamic Republic.

      • Cary says:

        No, not one bit of what I just said is “pure nonsense” or “utter ridiculousness.” Nice unsupported ad-hominems, though.

        On what basis do you reject these, as you say “primitive and nonsensical texts?” Do you have hard evidence directly refuting any aspect of them? I can directly refute the ancient native-American belief that the world was on a turtle’s back… there’s evidence that proves that this is untrue. We can safely call that “primitive” and even “nonsensical.”

        Do you have similar hard, factual, contradictory evidence against the Abrahamic faiths? If so, please present it. I know you can’t, because if you could, you would have done so long ago and would have settled the issue, wouldn’t you?

        Your own statements, above, are pure nonsense, however.

        You support your belief that something is nonsense because “it’s nonsense.” That’s not an argument, it’s merely a restatement of your own premise… a remarkably poor debating technique, widely recognized as unacceptable and generally an indication that the debater has no real argument worthy of being heard.

        Also, you completely refute your own argument when you claim that the ancient writings were created by “illiterates.” While it is true that Mohammed was illiterate (his words were spoken by him and recorded by others who were able to read and write), this is not true for any of the authors of the various elements of the Judeochristian scriptures. All were written by people who were literate.

        That you’re so incoherent that you would claim that something was “written by an illiterate” tells us a lot about your point.

        However, your choice to recite Dr. Dawkin’s favorite pejorative… the so-called “Flying Spagetti Monster”… tells me that you’re actually one of the true devotees of your particular belief system. Dawkins, after all, is one of the “high priests” of the faith-based system we call “Secular Humanism,” after all. It’s not surprising to see you quote him so directly. I’m sure you also have a “Darwin Fish” on your car, don’t you?

        Yes, it is not just TECHNICALLY TRUE, it’s LITERALLY TRUE, that you cannot disprove the existence of God. Yet, you believe this unquestioningly. You have no evidence other than your own FAITH that this is true, you see.

        You can deny it all you wish, but belief without proof is, by definition, FAITH. That is the very definition of the word… like it or not. What you believe, you believe based not upon reason, or proof, or evidence of any kind whatsoever. You believe it SOLELY BECAUSE YOU WANT TO BELIEVE IT.

        You state that “it” somehow “violates the laws of physics.” Really? What law of physics is violated by the existence of God, in your apparently omniscient base of knowledge?

        I’d argue that it’s sheer idiocy of the highest order that you believe that you know EVERYTHING. By your own worldview, you are nothing but a lump of neurons… a finite number of neurons. The complexity of the universe is so far beyond that which can be comprehended by that little lump of fatty tissue inside your skull that it’s INSANE to believe you understand… well… even the tiniest fragment of reality.

        And yet you believe that you know so much that you can claim that “God violates the laws of physics.” I’d call that a “God complex delusion,” personally.

        It’s a common lie told by those of you who pretend to be scientists (but who are truly merely zealots of your own personal belief system) that somehow religion and science are in opposition. You try to CLAIM science as though it’s your own. That’s a lie. God LIKES the laws of physics, and all the other natural laws, which we study through the process we call science. He likes them, because HE INVENTED THEM.

        Sassan, you claim that it violates the Scientific Method. Please… tell me your own pedigree. I use the scientific method every day. The scientific method has many aspects and elements, but two of the most critical are “nothing can be treated as fact unless is in able to be proven, incontrovertably” and “everything can, should, and MUST be questioned.”

        It’s not wrong to QUESTION the existence of God. But it is wrong to falsely claim that it’s FACTUAL when the very scientific method you PRETEND to follow (misappropriating it, not as a matter of actual science, but rather as one of the liturgies of your particular faith) denies you that option.

        You prove your own condition… your desire to think of yourself as “better than everyone else” and your claim that anyone who disagrees with your UNPROVEN AND UNPROVABLE BELIEF is inherently “ignorant” (while demonstrating your own ignorance of what you pretend to “worship”… ie, the scientific method) shows you to be utterly self-consumed, arrogant, frankly pretty delusional. You claim as a FACT that there is no God. You’re lying. That’s something you believe with no evidence or proof… it’s your PERSONAL FAITH, nothing more and nothing less. It’s your own religion, Sassan.

        You can toss out Dawkins quotes (which you’ve memorized during your daily devotionals, I’m sure) and misapply adjectives of various types to your heart’s content. But it does nothing but demonstrate your own personal shortcomings, and does nothing to bolster your case.

        • Sassan says:

          “On what basis do you reject these, as you say “primitive and nonsensical texts?” Do you have hard evidence directly refuting any aspect of them?”

          Your logic (and I apologize beforehand and don’t mean to be too rude but lack of logic) and fallacy started at the door and ended at the door before you even opened it. It is not my responsibility to “prove false” your nonsensical claims. I am sure there are many things you can also not disprove about the Native Americans beliefs. Just because you can prove a certain aspect of it false. Actually, if you believe in actual scripture there are many stories which are obviously “stories” but again, I cannot disprove god and your primitive beliefs just the same way you can’t disprove the existence of my belief in the Spaghetti Monster. The Spaghetti Monster is all knowing and is the creator of mankind. I worship him and so do you. He is circling the universe awaiting our return. If he doesn’t exist, can you please “disprove” he cannot exist??

          Remember, the great Albert Einstein himself said that not a single experiment can prove his theories correct, but a single experiment can prove them wrong. By making something not falsifiable, it is unscientific and not based on scientific principles. The things we used to believe in are not laughed at now, why?? We have knowledge through scientific advancement and secularism. Your reasoning and logic are very, very weak.

          I am not atheist or my “belief” as you call it based on only “nonsense”. It is based on several things which includes that through science via physics and biology we can demonstrate how life exists on earth and a basic idea of the formation of the universe without relying on a creator. In addition, I have visited Iran and been in Iran (went back first time I was 15 or 16) which made me truly realize the dictatorial and oppressive nature of religion. It is difficult for most Americans to understand and appreciate the brutality and oppressive nature of religion in daily life by Iranians inside of Iran. For this reason, it is hard for most Americans to become atheist because of our great constitution which embodies and values secularism through the separation of church and state. In addition, the U.S. educational system is very poor and the gap is the most extreme in the fields of science and math. It is no wonder why other western nations like the U.K. who do not have the extreme gap of education within science and math for our high school and university students have higher rates of atheists. In the U.K. for example, 25% of the populace are atheist because of science, logic, and rationality.

          Again, you type a lot but seem to not make many arguments or base any rationality based on your discussions. You have very little merit in what you say. For example, the ancient writings were definitely created by illiterates. Just because they could read, most of the scribes could not even read! They copied text like the way you and I can copy foreign language texts. In addition, I compare how illiterate society was back then in the fields of science by comparing the scientific knowledge of primitive times to the scientific knowledge of today. So even if some of the scribes could read as well (most couldn’t) they were still very illiterate. I think that in itself clearly addresses this issue.

          It is comical to address any atheist as “true devotees and as an atheist type of priest”. The flying spaghetti monster was actually created by Oregon State physics graduate Bobby Henderson who was protesting the decision by the Board of Education at Kansas State to permit the teaching of “intelligent design” alongside evolution. This was his witty way to say, “hey, teach my nonsense too!” Professor Dawkins is not only a revolutionary and bright man, but he is one of the world’s most renowned Biologists from Oxford University. Again, it is hilarious to refer to this renowned biologist and scientist as a “high priest”. It is quite sad actually. And no to the Darwin fish and hey, it is actually more scientific and beneficial if I had quoted something from Professor Dawkins as it may have been from one of his many scientific books he has written including on evolution which beyond a shadow of any doubt, provides further clear evidence of evolution and one of his earlier books titled “The Selfish Gene” describes how altruistic behavior actually has formed in humans and how this has contributed to our moral landscape of right and wrong. He wrote this fascinating book back in 1976 and very much still applies today.

          For the last time, science is not faith. Faith is faith and that is the way you live your life. Not on evidence, rationality, or logic. To believe something just to “believe in something” is not only irrational and illogical but down right frightening to those in power to influence our youth and to a further extent (as can be seen in Iran) control society, government, and the armed forces. To believe in something like god (an actual deity) that exists just to exist and never dies and somehow exists somewhere regardless of dimensions clearly violates the laws of physics…actually, it is not even a part of physics. Physics is based on natural events and the explanation of those events. Not based on superstitious dogma which have no basis in reality. Again, you can believe in what you want but when trying to impose it to the youth in our educational system and government, then I have a problem.

          To close, I will repeat, not knowing something is valued in science it is okay. No reason to attribute our not knowing to a higher power. I am sure you would have been one of those denying the earth was not flat and that earth was not the center of the solar system. Again, ignorance does not equate to reality. And do I claim to be a scientist at the present moment?? NO. I am in university studying neuroscience and I actually plan on being one in the near future. Neuroscience – study of the brain processes and how it relates to psychology and behavior. You try to force science and religion go hand in hand, but religious zealots demonstrate that they are against scientific advancement, progress, and modernity. Just like wanting to block stem cell research because these little cells are “babies” to you.

          The scientific method clearly demonstrates that a theory or hypothesis must be falsifiable. The existence of a higher power is against scientific principles, the scientific method, and of rationality and logic. People mostly believe in god due to the fact (as I mentioned) of fearing death. I understand that. Wouldn’t it be great if I could go to heaven so that the party wouldn’t be over when I died and I get to join my deceased family members and friends?? Oh yeah! I should not be Muslim and get the 72 virgins! Can I be with them all at the same time in a big orgy?? Sounds like fun! And no, I don’t think or want to be better than everyone else. That’s why I admire the likes of a genius such as Dr. Michio Kaku. It is the foundation of religion to have “in-groups” and “out-groups”, us vs. them. In fact, biologist Edward Wilson of Harvard notes possible reasons to the questions he has had in why humans cling so fiercely to their beliefs. He states, “Religion, is universally found in every human culture ever studied on earth. Anthropologists have found that all primitive tribes have an “origin” myth that explains where they came from. Furthermore, this mythology sharply separates “us” from “them” and provides a cohesive (and often irrational) force that preserves the tribe, and suppresses divisive criticism of their leader”. So in fact, it is not be “desiring” to think of myself as better than everyone else, in fact I know I am not. I value this life and understand that we live once and are not even the smallest grain in the vast expanse of the universe. On the other hand, religion creates a “members only paradise” from this celestial dictator of yours. There are nearly 200 billion stars in our milky galaxy alone, and about 500 billion galaxies in the universe. Our new Kepler telescope has already identified 1000+ exoplanets and scores of them are in their habitable zones to their mother stars. In fact, Kepler has predicted based on their data from its fairly recent endeavor, that 50 billion planets may inhabit the milky way galaxy with up to 500 million being earth like!! There are more stars than there are all the grains of sands in the beaches combined throughout earth. In fact, physicists are unsure if the Big Bang was the creation of a completely single universe or of “our dimension of portion” or the vast universe. Again, science values uncertainty and humility, something that does not exist with religion. With religion, only your side is correct and everyone else is destined for damnation and hell.

        • Sassan says:

          I forgot to mention: Three reasons not to believe in something – 1) Tradition (to believe just to believe because your parents believed in your religion and passed it down to you, people don’t think about this too much but people are generally the religion they are because that is what their parents were. If you were born into a Muslim family, most likely you would have ended up Muslim), Authority (because an authority figure such as parents or religious figure told you so. “it is so because it is so, there just is a god and I believe in this prophet and that prophet etc etc.”), 3) Revelation (because it feels good! I believe because when I pray I feel good or when someone dies it helps me to console in their passing. Or believing because of the fear of death or having so called revelations or some “inner” subjective feeling)

          Until we look at the world with the basic principles of logic, rationality, and evidence; the future of the human race remains rather bleak..

          • Cary says:

            You’re a lost cause, clearly, for the moment, Sassan… which, honestly, makes me very sad. You’re clearly PASSIONATE about your beliefs, but the passion which you feel does not translate into an ability to see your own beliefs objectively.

            You, like all zealots, are absolutely convinced that what you believe (without proof or evidence of any kind) is the absolute truth, and that anyone who challenges that belief is fundamentally wrong on every possible level.

            Your argumentation style is entirely based upon belittlement (emotionally-based, not evidence-based) of the person opposing your worldview.

            I’ll be blunt… I can respect an agnostic. I think that an agnostic is wrong, but that’s based upon my own faith, and I cannot prove it. I can respect the intellectual basis for their belief (or rather, lack thereof). An agnostic is someone who refuses to accept that they’re told without proof. They don’t REJECT the existence of God, but neither do they accept it.

            An atheist, on the other hand, I cannot respect, because an atheist holds an opinion with no basis in fact or evidence, based purely upon an “authority” having told them so, or upon their personal desire to reject any form of authority higher than themself. They have no scientific or logical basis for their perspective, nor for most of the “holy elements” of their belief system. Yet they are the most hostile, most aggressive, most disrespectful believers out there.

            I can respect a devout Muslim, although I believe he is wrong, if he truly follows the calling of his (or her… unfortunately, English lacks a non-gender-specific pronoun) heart. I can respect a dedicated Taoist. I can respect a Hindu. I can respect a Jew. I can respect a truly-devout Scientologist. I can respect a sincere Wiccan. I may believe that they’re all wrong (some more than others), but if they truly believe, and if they treat others fairly and respectfully, I can accept discordant views on religion, though I will still try to argue my point to them, and they to me.

            There are some elements of truth within each of those which are common to my own beliefs, and some which are common to all. It is not necessary for a Christian, or any other member of any other faith, to assume that every aspect of every other belief system is wrong.

            Except for Atheism. To be an atheist, you must assume at the outset that everyone in the world who disagrees with your perspective is completely and totally wrong. You must believe that the overwhelming majority of the human race, both at present and throughout all of recorded history, has been wrong at the most fundamental level about everything that they’ve believed.

            You must believe that YOU are far more “enlightened” and “wise” than all but a tiny few who’ve ever lived. You must believe, at your core, that you are BETTER THAN EVERYONE ELSE. You must, frankly, believe that YOU ARE THE CLOSEST THING TO GOD THAT EXISTS. And that you, as a “Godlike person” has the right (or even the “responsibility”) to govern those stupid, lesser people.

            This is why the most horrific dictators in human history, who have committed the most terrible crimes against the human race, have been atheists. Not merely the murders and subjugations, but every crime.

            My favorite example, of course, is the “Cultural Revolution.” The largest mass-murder in all of human history.

            Justified because Mao rejected morality, and of any accountability to anyone or anything higher than himself, in favor of his own “Godhood.”

            It is true that there have been terrible things done, from time to time, in the name of Christianity, but you’ll find that none of them are actually in agreement with the tenets of Christianity itself. Rather, they have been acts performed by people attempting to USE Christianity to justify their own belief that they, personally, could act as though they were God. This is something that someone who truly believes in God would never do, after all.

            Of course, some of what we hear about as being “the horrors of Christianity” aren’t such at all. While it’s true that the Spanish Inquisition was quite violent, it should be pointed out that this occurred after the Muslim invaders had been driven out of Spain, during the time that Spain was rebuilding itself. The Moors had come in and slaughtered everyone who refused to “submit” (and by the way, the meaning of the work Islam isn’t “peace” as you’ve been told, it’s “submission.”) They’d destroyed every church, killed every Christian cleric. This started at Cordoba, where they replaced the cathedral with the Cordoba Mosque. (Curious how the new proposed “Ground Zero mosque” in NYC was to be called the “Cordoba Mosque” as well, huh?)

            As for the crusades, well… only the third crusade is even remotely questionable. After all, the armies flying under the flag of Allah had moved across northern Africa, into Europe at Gibraltar, and simultaneously up through Turkey and Albania… with the openly stated goal of sacking Rome and destroying the center of Christendom on Earth. They were eventually stopped by the First Crusade… and were driven back from Europe by the Second Crusade. In the west, in Spain, the Inquisition removed the remaining vestiges of that invasion, but in the east, in Albania in particular, this was not done, and so Albania is a Muslim stronghold today. The Third Crusade pushed beyond Europe and drove the “Armies of Allah” back to Arabia and Persia, and were punctuated with the reclamation of Jerusalem.

            So, the Crusades were DEFENSIVE WARS, not “wars of aggression,” with only the third having gone beyond “pure defense” at all. And the Inquisition was a (perhaps overly aggressive?) attempt to expunge the effects of several generations of subjugation to Muslim invaders.

            This is called history. It’s another one of those sciences which you claim to believe in, but appear not to. Not all religions are equal, you see, despite your desire to equate them.

            And your own belief system is no more based upon “logic, rationality, and evidence” than any other belief system. If anything, you have the greatest burden of proof to meet, as you’re part of the ONLY belief system which requires total rejection of everything that the majority of all humans throughout all of human history, and the majority of all humans currently alive today, believe.

            You have to believe many things that are demonstrably untrue, and many other things which are tremendously unlikely, and many more which are entirely unprovable.

            But you take it on faith that your perspective is “the right one” and that everyone else is entirely wrong.

            You, Sassan, are a zealot, nothing more and nothing less. I’ll let you have the last word, since I now believe that you’re constitutionally incapable of even considering anything outside of your own inured beliefs.

            I fully expect you to pretend that you can belittle those of us who disagree with you, but realize that this accomplishes nothing except to make you look like a petulant child. And I have given up on getting an actual response, with thought and logic behind it, to any point I might raise. You’re not a scientist, you’re a zealot.

            But you do have a brain… and hopefully some of what you’ve read here will remain in your memory. If things happen, in the future, which some of us have claimed are likely to happen, I hope that you’ll remember this and may begin to finally question some of your hard-coded assumptions.

            • Sassan says:

              I don’t usually resort to personal name calling but you have to be one of the most ignorant and stupid people I have ever conversed with.

              • Kim says:

                Hey doofus, shut your asshole from which you are speaking from!!! I don’t like resorting to name calling either but when someone denies God the divine designer, engineer, physicist, and chemist of all matter and antimatter of the universe then I tend to get pissed off! God deserves respect and admiration! Look at all of creation you fool-that doesn’t happen by accident. Oh yeah, you have a fish brain. Poor thing. I guess that’s why you just can’t get it! By the way, one day either by choice or not you will get on your knees to bow to Jesus Christ and confess him as Lord of all!

                • Sassan says:

                  I’m sorry but the idea of a celestial dictator who allows genocide and deaths at his pleasure while “doing nothing” is not a concept that deserves fake respect. Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

                  In addition, be sure we humans are only a speck of all the life in the universe. We are surely still a very primitive species so our existence and being is really probably not that unique. Just because you yourself are ignorant of science, rationality, and logic does not make “things impossible” or happen on “accident” according to your naivety.

                  • Kim says:

                    A celestial dictator God is not. An awesome and powerful creator he is! You are right in saying God allows genocide and death but he does not cause it. And, he definitely takes no pleasure in it. Man’s freewill and his disobedience to God is what causes it. Thanks a lot Sassan! You are a contributing factor.

                    • Sassan says:

                      “Man’s freewill and his disobedience to God is what causes it. Thanks a lot Sassan! You are a contributing factor.”

                      So, me little Sassan is a factor in all the genocide, natural disasters, and innocent little kids dying in Africa because they have no food to eat? Wow, I guess your “God” is really pure evil. Because of freewill god allows the uncountable number of deaths to occur in this world. What a great belief you have. You can imagine in your fairytale that you will be continuing the party once you are dead, but us rationalists know that there is only one party and that once we die, we will be leaving this planet while the party is still going on. That is okay though, as all our ancestors have done the same exact thing. We are all animals, albeit a slightly more intelligent one than others that exist on earth.

                    • Kim says:

                      EXCUSE you!!! There you go again blowing a lot of hot air out of your ass.
                      Continuing the party? Haha. How do I continue if the party has not even begun yet? I look forward to this physical death. To be absent from this body is to be present with the Lord God almighty himself. Now that will be a partayyyy!

                      Sassan, you said that once you and your atheist cronies( I think you accidentally put rationalists) die that you will be leaving this planet. Good boy! I’m so proud of you for realizing that you are equipped with an eternal soul. Now,as to whether or not you will be leaving this planet is up for debate. Some people believe hell is in the bowels of the earth, while others believe it’s possibly on another planet or that it is in another dimension of time and space, i.e. The spiritual realm. Sassan, in all sincerity, I don’t want you to go there. You see, a TRUE Christian would not want anybody, not even an atheist, to suffer that fate because of the love of Christ we have dwelling in us. On the contrary, a TRUE Muslim, because they do not know the true God, would want you beheaded for denying his god allah (lower case intentional) I wish you would put your hate and prejudice aside towards Christians for just an hour or two and read a New York Times best-selling book titled “23 Minutes in Hell” by Bill Wiese. Or, better yet watch the cd of the same title so you can see and hear this man’s intensity of emotions and sincerity as he tells his life changing story. I have always believed in Hell, but I have to say I was a little skeptical at first after hearing what this book / cd was about. However, I think this man is speaking the truth. What would you have to lose by reading it except for time? If nothing else, you would have some new material to scrutinize and make fun of.
                      By the way, You are obviously an intelligent book smart guy, but you are lacking in common sense. I mean come on, how many freaking perfect accidents would have had to happen to create this perfect planet on which life is sustained? What are the probabilities? It is way more plausible that there is a God who is so much more greater than what we could ever conceive of that created everything in the seen and the unseen by way of a BIG BANG! Logic tell us that something cannot come out of nothing as you have proposed. The particles that collided to cause the BIG BANG were created by God!!! Period end of story. I will be praying for you and hope all other Christians reading this will too.
                      P.s. Sorry about the ass comment at the opening. I am such a smart ass sometimes and can be mean spirited at times. These traits are not part of the fruit of the spirit (the holy spirit). I am crucifying my fleshly nature little by little through the reading of the word of God.
                      Good bye Sassan. Now, I have to go work on my fitness at Gold’s gym. Later gator.

                  • Cary says:


                    You truly lack any understanding of the Judeo-Christian concept of God.

                    This is because you view this life as the end-all and be-all of existence. It is not.

                    Imagine that you are a baby in the womb. (And no, before you go off half-cocked, I’m not about to discuss abortion, so relax!)

                    Your entire view of existence is based upon what you’ve experienced so far. You occasionally hear muffled sounds, or see dim lights. You’re never hungry, or thirsty. You have no worries or concerns. Life is good, for the most part.

                    Suddenly, you start to experience pain. You’re being pressed on… to the point that your head actually becomes squeezed out of shape! You hear screaming, your supply of nutrients and oxygen begins to be cut off. Your world has suddenly become an unexpectedly traumatic experience of pain and fear.

                    It gets even worse… you’re no longer in your nice, warm, fluid-filled universe… you’re cold, you feel pain as your lifeline is sliced away, and you are held upside down. You feel the fluid which has been inside your chest drain away, and you don’t know why. You feel something rough, tightly gripping your feet… and then suddenly you feel a sharp pain, and discover that you can cry out in fear and hurt.

                    But this moment of transition isn’t the loss of something, it’s a transition into something far better than what you had before. It’s new, it’s different… and it’s something you would never have imagined. But once you’ve made the transition, you start to develop into something else.

                    Right now, we’re all effectively in a “womb.” Death isn’t a BAD thing… it’s really quite analogous to birth. But since we don’t know for certain what happens on the other end of the event, and because we know that the moment of transition is normally pretty unpleasant, we do fear it, to one extent or another.

                    I get your argument… you think that death is the end, and that we’re nothing but lumps of neurons inside of bone enclosures, with attached life-support, data-collection, and reproductive systems. Right?

                    But that’s not what Christians believe.

                    Because we believe differently, we understand why suffering happens.

                    God is not a “celestial dictator,” under our belief system. God doesn’t want mindless obedient drones. He gave us minds, and He gave us FREE WILL.

                    I’ve already explained what evil is. I’ll reiterate, though… evil is the name we use to describe willful disobedience to God. We… every last one of us… has “good” imprinted. This is where our conscience comes from, as I explained previously. This isn’t biological in nature, it’s it’s something more than biological. If you don’t like the term “spiritual,” if that brings up concepts like “superstition” or “magic” to your mind, that’s fine… and you may choose to think of it as “supra-biological” instead.

                    Assume that God exists, for the sake of the argument. And assume that God doesn’t want wind-up toys, but real beings with real minds and real wills as his creations. Would YOU want mindless automatons to serve you, or would you prefer to have servants who do so because they’ve chosen to, of their own free will?

                    God created us with the ability to choose to follow Him, or to choose not to. Yes, He COULD just step in and pull all the strings, but that would inherently eliminate any possibility of GOODNESS, wouldn’t it?

                    You make the mistake of thinking of “evil” as the OPPOSITE of “good.” As though there are two diametrically opposed forces in the universe.

                    You’d be better off to think of this as a glass. A full glass is “totally good” and an empty glass is “totally evil.” “Evil” is the ABSENCE OF GOOD, not the OPPOSITE OF GOOD.

                    And evil exists, because we have the freedom to choose whether or not to follow God’s will. Because we’re not wind-up toys.

                    God is able to do anything… but God is not able to be nonsensical. God cannot create square circle, because while we can string those words together, they form only nonsense. Everything from God makes sense.

                    God is not able to remove our free will and allow us to make choices. That is also nonsense. And without free will… without our right to choose… we cannot be anything but robots.

                    This is why there is “evil” in the universe. It’s the cost of allowing us to CHOOSE to follow Him.

                    A blade of grass can neither be good nor bad. A cow, which is more advanced, still cannot be very good or very bad. A dog, which is far more intelligent, can be more good or more bad. A man can be still more good or more bad, as he chooses to be. And, of course, a superhuman spirit, if it chooses to disobey God’s will, can be worst of all.

                    The cost of freedom is the possibility that a creation can choose to go wrong. Evidently, God considers this risk to be worth it.

                    You, once again, do very well in repeating the arguments made by Hitchins and Dawkins and the whole “anti-God clique.”


                    Secondly, who has ever claimed that we are the only form of life in the universe? There are a few people who believe that, to be sure, but there is no basis for any such belief in Christian doctrine. All we can say, for certain, is that we have no knowledge of anything beyond ourselves. And that, apparently, for the moment this is something we’re expected to accept.

                    We simply don’t know what other life may or may not exist, nor do we have any idea of what form any such life may take, nor of what relationships any such other life may have to God. Since we have no evidence, it is just as ludicrous to assume that such life does exist as it is to assume that it does not exist, and to treat either assumption as FACT.

                    I, personally, believe that it’s highly unlike that we’re alone in all of the universe. But that’s my belief, with no factual data to support it. I take that, as with all other unsupportable assumptions, on FAITH.

                    But Sassan, your arrogance and hatred is starting to get annoying. You, Sassan, are far more ignorant than most of those whom you continue to attempt to insult by using that term. You really need to work on your conversational style.

                    How, exactly, did you discover that Kim is “ignorant of science?” The same way that you “discovered” that about me… ie, that I don’t blindly accept your own (incorrect) claims regarding science?

                    You disagree, so instead of debating points in a dispassionate fashion, you instead rely on purile, juvenile INSULTS. Not one thing Kim said is “naive” or “ignorant.” In fact, to be very blunt, YOU are coming across as both of those, far moreso than anyone else in this threat.

                    “Naive” because you blindly follow what some “authority” has told you without being so much as OPEN TO CONSIDERING OTHER POSSIBILITIES, much less the idea that maybe the “authority” you follow so blindly may not have everything 100% right.

                    And IGNORANT because you so clearly fail to grasp the most fundamental element of science.. it’s a TECHNIQUE… a tool… which we use to try to model and understand our observations. It is not reality itself. And that the “first commandment” of true science is “everything can and must be open to questioning.”

                    • Sassan says:

                      “And that the “first commandment” of true science is “everything can and must be open to questioning.” ”

                      All you have to do is provide one piece of evidence that shows god exists or have him come down himself and provide evidence. Then, there would be no debate. Science is open to questioning and reason but what that means is that you have to provide EVIDENCE, not nonsense through primitive belief and texts.

                    • Cary says:

                      Sassan said “All you have to do is provide one piece of evidence that shows god exists or have him come down himself and provide evidence. Then, there would be no debate. Science is open to questioning and reason but what that means is that you have to provide EVIDENCE, not nonsense through primitive belief and texts.”

                      I have to do no such thing. I admit that my own belief system involves faith… and I have clearly defined faith, as belief without such evidence.

                      But you, Sassan, are doing it again. You already knew what I just pointed out, but are attempting to “change your footing” because you can’t win on the real argument.

                      YOU are the one who is claiming that your personal belief system is based upon “scientific fact.” Thus, it is YOU who need to produce such evidence.

                      Otherwise, you need to acknowledge that your own belief is based upon faith… not facts. You believe what you believe without any proof, without any supporting evidence.

                      Your belief system is just like every other belief system. Yet you continue to PRETEND that yours is somehow “scientifically valid.”

                      You are the ONLY one who is claiming that yours is based upon hard science. Thus, you are the one with the burden of producing scientifically valid evidence to support your claim.

          • Nancy says:

            Sassan… I know I won’t change your mind, but perhaps this little bit of evidence will wet your appetite to do some research and to learn more. First of all I would like to say that we have so much evidence that supports our Christian beliefs that it would fill volumes. It’s not only based on faith which I know you think of as myths we believe in because it somehow makes us feel better. Our Christian beliefs are based on the holy scriptures so we must first examine that. There is evidence to show that the scriptures are Scientifically accurate, Historically accurate, that Archeological finds support it, the the ancient copies are Reliable…they have been copied and handed down correctly, the information in it is still Relevant today so many years later, and Prophecies fulfilled prove it. I can give you examples of these under each of these headings. Let’s take the first one. It’s scientifically accurate. If you look at Isaiah 40:22 it says: “He (God) sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers.” This statement is amazing because the book of Isaiah was written 700 years before the birth of Jesus Christ. Scientists did not recognize that the earth was round and in space until the 1400′s. You may argue that the words may have been copied wrong and that people changed it. However, in 1947, the Dead Sea Scrolls were found. A boy threw a rock into a cave and heard something shatter. He went in to investigate and found these ancient scrolls that had been hidden in vases in the cave (and hundreds more in surrounding caves). Archeologists determined that they had been buried there when the Romans were coming to crush the Jewish revolt that started in 66AD. Jerusalem and the Holy Temple were destroyed in 70 AD, and the Jews were either killed or taken as slaves. That’s part of history… you can google it and learn more. Thus the caves were abandoned and untouched for 1900 years. About 800 scrolls were found and every single book of the Old Testament except for the book of Esther were found and there were even multiple copies of some. These ancient copies found in 1947 were now our oldest copies of the scriptures. The previous ancient copy we had was written 1000 years later than these. Obviously they were excited with this find and examined it closely to see how this copy would be different than the other one. They were astonished to find that in Isaiah they found only 7 LETTERS or symbols that were different than the one they had and none of the changes altered the meaning. This showed that we can confidently rely on not only how it was copied but also on the dating. Isaiah 53 includes so many prophecies that Jesus Christ actually was the long awaited Messiah that many Jewish rabbis don’t even read that chapter anymore…. they know it describes Jesus. Let’s get back to science. The Hydrological Cycle wasn’t recognized by science until the 1700′s, but the book of Job written around 3000BC says: “He draws up the drops of water, which distill as rain to the streams; the clouds pour down their moisture and abundant showers fall on mankind.” Job 36:27-28. Job also talks about the Earth Hanging in Empty Space..that wasn’t recognized by science until 1543. “He spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing.” Job 26:7. The book of Leviticus was written in 1450BC and includes so many commandments to the people on how they should live. Many commandments had to do with sterilization and quarrantine the reasoning for which no one understood until thousands of years later. In fact, when so many people were dying from the Black Plague in Europe, the people went to the clergy to find the answers. They searched the books of Moses and then suggested they practice quarantining people and separating the dead bodies as commanded in the bible and they were finally able to get control over it. One of my favorite scientific bits of evidence shows that God specified the best date for circumcision by commanding male infants to be circumcised on the 8th day. We didn’t know this until 1947, but “Infants can be subject to hemorrhaging from the 2nd day after birth to the 5th, so a small cut could be deadly.Vitamin K, necessary for the production of prothrombin, a blood clotting substance, isn’t produced sufficiently until days 5-7 and skyrockets to 110% of normal on day 8 and then levels off.” (Examine the Evidence: Muncaster p. 166) Facts like these are just amazing and to me gives evidence that the bible really is the inspired Word of God. When you read the bible, unlike other holy books from other religions that are all philosophy and esoteric sayings, it includes things that happened in history that can be verified. For many many years critics of the bible said it couldn’t be true because so much was written about the Hittites and there was no such people known to live; now archeologists have found so many artifacts of the early Hittites that they fill a museum in Israel! I could go on and on, but I know you have made up your mind. I would suggest to you if you have any interest at all to start reading the book of John. Say a prayer first that if this is true that it will be revealed to you. What do you have to lose by just doing that. Nothing. But if we are right and you are wrong, there is much to lose. If you love searching for evidence and examining things closely to find answers, I would like to suggest several books to you. 1)Examine the Evidence by Ralph Muncaster 2)New Evidence that Demands a Verdict by Josh McDowell and 4)The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel. Lee Strobel’s books are very interesting. He graduated from Yale(so he’s no dummy)and was an investigative reporter for a newspaper when his wife became a Christian. He couldn’t believe she would fall for this and so he was determined to prove her wrong! So he approached the task just as he would a criminal case he was investigating. He interviewed experts in each of the different areas. Read his book and see what he discovered. He’s much like you..same questions…seeking the same answers. I challenge you to do the same. What do you have to lose? Good luck, my friend!

      • Holly says:

        We all have faith. It is how we deal with the unknown. God is the unknown, and we all have relationship with the unknown. So there really are no “atheists.” Now someone might have a problem with how Christians or Muslims define the unknown, but that does not mean the unknown does not exist.

        Historically, anytime we have attempted to rid ourselves of religion, or faith, we have substituted it with something else. In the 20th Century, the Communists and Nazis were good examples. In America, we see various forms of Environmentalism expressing as faith.

        • Sassan says:

          Holly, the Nazis were Roman Catholic and followers of the church. They did not try to get rid of “faith”, in particular when it comes to Christianity.

          Everything is “unknown” then. People who have faith believe in this unknown, but atheists know that this unknown is impossible to exist and is a man-made set of primitive beliefs that answered our questions when we were more ignorant and primitive and these traditions and ignorance have continued to present day and plays in the majority of the population due to the fear of death for us and our loved ones.

          I am not advocating atheism by and force or dictatorship. All I am saying is twofold: First, preserve the separation of church and state and keep your religion at home. Second, that the beauty of science and living in reality is a much better way to live one’s life and that the more educated one is in the sciences and math realm, the more likely they are to start seeing the world in more logical and rational ways. We need to start valuing science and reason away from religious dogma which in the most kindest terms, truly is nonsense and based on no logic or evidence whatsoever.

          • Cary says:

            There is no piece of our history which has been “revised” so much as that revolving around the Nazis.

            Most of this revisionism has been perpetrated by the Socialist movement. Why? Well, most people don’t know who the Nazis really were, or what they were about. But for anyone truly interested in studying history, you can easily learn the truth. If, however, you’re willing to just accept the “common knowledge,” you’ve probably been deceived.

            First, let’s just be clear. “Nazi” was not the official name of the party. The true name of this group was “Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei.” And if you translate that into English, that would be “National Socialist German Workers’ Party.”

            How many of you knew that?

            Have you ever looked at the Nazi flag? It’s a swastika on a red background. Do you know why the Nazis chose the red background? This was to show solidarity with the other socialist movements throughout the world.

            What is a Swastika? I explained this earlier… but it is a mythical “Atlantean” symbol. Recall that the Aryan’s were supposedly a group of more evolved humans, from this destroyed civilization… the Nazis adopted that symbol to show that they were the “heirs” to that civilization.


            It was introduced to Indian culture, supposedly, by a tribe of highly advanced, blue-eyed, blond-haired people who settled in northern India shortly after the supposed destruction of Atlantis, according to “Aryan” mythology. Those people were known as the Aryans, in fact. There were other “lost tribes from Atlantis” (according to this mythology) in other areas of the world… including the Thule in northern Europe.

            A principle element of this same belief was that all religions on Earth were false… and all religious miracles were faked by the use of highly-advanced Atlantean artifacts.

            Sound wacky? I think so too… and I’m not telling you I believe this. I’m telling you that this is what the core leadership of the National Socialist Workers’ Party believed.

            This believe that “all religions were false” includes Christianity.

            Now, Adolph Hitler was orphaned at a young age. He went to live with relations. These relations were JEWISH. And it was his hatred for these relations which caused his hatred for Jews, and which originally drew him into the circle of the Thule Society membership.

            It has been widely disseminated that Hitler was a Christian, but THIS IS A LIE. People talk about how Hitler attended a Christian school as a child… but this is no more proof that he was Christian than it is that, because Barack Obama attended a Muslim school, this AUTOMATICALLY demonstrates that he is a devout Muslim.

            We all know people who went to religious schools, and end up rebelling against that, don’t we? And it’s worth noting that at this time in history, there really weren’t “public schools” in the sense we know them today. Most schools were run by the churches. So, it’s no surprise that Hitler may have attended a school run by a church. This is no evidence that he was a Christian.

            The favorite “proof” of Hitler’s supposed “Christianity” for those who want to falsely associate him with their enemies is the fact that many of the churches in Germany “cooperated” with the Nazis. But I’ve already explained this… and there is plenty of historical proof of what I’ve stated.

            The Nazis were in no way shy about their hatred of the Church. This should come as no surprise… anyone who seeks absolute power will inherently resent any doctrine which states that there’s someone higher than this person.

            However, Germany was a predominently Christian nation. So, the Nazis didn’t just go in and shut down all the churches. Instead, they attempted to coopt, and corrupt, the churches, turning them into fully-controlled elements of the “party machine.”

            Here’s a great article explaining just how this was done… in this case, focusing on Christmas.


            You should check it out. You’ll see… they replaced GOD, and CHRIST, with “The State” and “The Leaders.”

            There’s plenty of proof of this. But we’ve been fed a steady diet of LIES about who the Nazis were for decades now, by those who are in fact far more closely associated with the Nazi philosophies than they want us to recognize.

            The Nazis were not “Conservatives” in any way, shape or form. They were, BY THEIR OWN DEFINITION, “Socialists.”

            The Nazis were not in favor of lower taxation, more personal freedom, etc. They were in favor of vastly expanded governmental power, supposedly “to take care of the people.”

            The Nazis were DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED. They did not rise to power in a coup… they rose to power in open and free elections. And the platforms upon which they ran are still able to be viewed.

            Adolph Hitler was a crusader for health. One of his big issues was “finding a cure for cancer,” in fact.

            Adolph Hitler was a teatotaler and a Vegetarian.

            Adolph Hitler was pro-Eugenics, and was philosophically aligned with Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood. Again, don’t take MY word for it, check it out in her own words:


            Oh, yes, the Nazis undertook a “gun control” program… first requiring registration, then restricting private ownership (you could own a weapon, but it had to be stored in an approved government-run facility), then finally undertaking complete confiscation. Why? Well, a disarmed citizenry isn’t able to resist.

            Unlike communists, another competing branch of Socialism, the National Socialists were focused on… well, Nationalism, rather than Internationalism. But most National Socialists saw this as a stepping stone to global socialism. They just saw their own group (say, Aryans?) as being the Orwellian “more equal than the rest of you” members of this “global community.”

            Also, unlike the communists, they did not nationalize all industries. But they did take control of all industries. It hardly matters who owns a company, if the business can only be run according to the dictates of a government bureaucrat, does it? Some companies were nationalized, but most were simply told “do as you’re told, or else” and were thus under the total control of the Government… but if the company failed, the bureaucrats were was able to claim innocence!

            Any of this sounding familiar?

            Today, when people think of the Nazis, they think of cartoon caricatures… a funny little guy who walks strangely and keeps throwing his arm up in front of him, screaming, with his funny little mustache, usually. Or they think of the false idea of Nazis somehow being “right wing Conservatives.” Despite the fact that there is not a single “conservative” idea that is anything but in diametric opposition to the principles of the National Socialist Workers’ Party of Germany.

            People hear Nazi and they only think about “killing Jews.” Yet strangely, you don’t think about about the Communists in Russia, unless you’re well-educated on the topic… even though the Communists did the same thing, and to many more victims.

            No… killing Jews wasn’t the defining element of what made them Nazis. They wanted ABSOLUTE POWER. And when someone has absolute, unfettered power, there is nothing to prevent them from letting their dark inner desires out. Hitler, in particular, hated Jews, and when he had no restrictions on what he could do, he let this particular darkness out.

            What he did was horrific. But it pales next to what Russia did to the Ukrainians. Do you know about that? Bet you don’t… but you should look into it.

            You’ve been fed a steady stream of lies about who these people… the Nazis… were. This is simply “the big lie.” Repeat a ludicrous falsehood loudly, and often, enough… and people will eventually start to believe it.

            Don’t buy into the lie. The National Socialist Workers’ Party of Germany was NOT CONSERVATIVE, was NOT CHRISTIAN. It was SOCIALIST, it was “BIG GOVERNMENT WITH TOTAL CONTROL,” it was “NO INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS,” instead focusing on “THE COLLECTIVE.”

            People who are, in most ways, in ideological

            • Sassan says:

              Did you even read any of the quotes from Hitler on the massive information I provided on the Nazis and Hitler??? Hitler may have been using the church and may not have been that religious but he was clearly a Roman Catholic.

              In response to your last point, as I have stated and as common sense and the scientific method demands, if YOU MAKE A CLAIM for a BELIEF, you must provide the evidence. It is not my responsibility to provide evidence when it is YOU making the CLAIM of a higher power. If you make the claim, you must provide the evidence. I make no such false or supernatural claim. As I have stated, can you please provide “EVIDENCE” that the Spaghetti Monster doesn’t exist?? Same concept.


              • Cary says:


                I read every one of the quotes you showed. And every one is consistent with what I’ve told you. These were CONTEMPORARY, PUBLIC STATEMENTS, not things said by him in his private diary or the like.

                As I clearly said, the Nazis fully understood that Germany was a majority-Christian nation. As I clearly said, the Nazis recognized that they could not simply shut down the churches. As I clearly said, they instead recognized that they needed to CORRUPT and to CO-OPT the churches.

                As my examples clearly show, this is exactly what they did. They attempted, not to DESTROY the church, but to transform it into an element of the state. They attempted to remove CHRIST from CHRISTMAS. Do you honestly think that this is something that “devote Christians” would do?

                I’ve given you an ACTUAL HISTORICAL DOCUMENT FROM THE TIME. And you’ve given me a series of quotes Hitler made to majority-Christian crowds as he attempted to deceive them into going along with his attempt to take over their faith and convert it into “faith in the State.”

                Most of the quotes you gave me were already known to me. A few I’ve never seen before and some I SERIOUSLY doubt, considering the sources. As I said so clearly, we’ve all been fed a steady diet of LIES about the Nazis over the years.

                But Hitler’s diary can be read by any of us, today. Go to that… the single most reliable source on what the man really thought… and you can learn what he REALLY believed.

                He made it very clear that he was willing to lie, and to manipulate, in order to “transform” the then-current German majority belief in Christianity into something more to his liking.

                But his diaries were not intended for public consumption at the time. He recorded them, with the belief that he would be victorious and that they would be a historical record of what he really thought and really did.

                He LOST, of course, but they are still a historical record of what he really thought and what he really did. We just don’t approve of it like he believed that future generations would.

              • Cary says:

                Also, Sassan, you keep FALSELY CLAIMING THAT SCIENTIFIC METHOD SUPPORTS YOUR POSITION. YOU ARE LYING. I’m sorry, but there’s no other way to state that.

                What I’ve said, and what you keep attempting to trick your way around, is simply this:

                “Those who believe that all of this is ‘superstitious nonsense’ should take a step back. They may not believe what they’re shown… that’s called SKEPTICISM and that’s generally a healthy attitude. But outright REJECTION of something… ANYTHING… without having any firm proof that what you’re rejecting is untrue? That’s merely another form of ‘religion.’

                In other words, those of you who claim that ‘belief in God is nonsense’ cannot support that belief… it’s something you believe, solely based upon FAITH. Yes, ‘Secular Humanism’ is a religion!”

                My position has not changed. You’re trying to claim that your belief system is DIFFERENT THAN ALL THE OTHER BELIEF SYSTEMS. I’m telling you, point blank, that this is a LIE.

                You claim that science supports your belief system. Nobody else is making that claim. You can attempt to sidestep that as much as you want, but it’s a hard fact. YOU CLAIM THIS.

                Thus you have to provide scientifically-valid evidence to support that claim.

                Christians, and all the other faith systems out there, acknowledge that “faith” is at the center of our beliefs. We may believe we are the one who has it right, but we’re not ARROGANT enough to lie about somehow having “hard scientific evidence” (especially when we don’t).

                So, let me turn this around on you. You are makking a “claim for a belief.” You are claiming that you believe that God does not exist. It is not MY responsibility to provide evidence when YOU make the claim that there is no such higher power. I make no such false claim that “science” supports my own position. As I have stated, can you please provide “EVIDENCE” that God doesn’t exist?

                YOU, Sassan, are the one pretending that “Science is on my side” (even though you’ve demonstrated a repeated lack of grasp of the scientific method).

                At first, you claimed to be into neuroscience. Now, however, you’d admitted that you’re actually a Psychology student, preparing for a career as a psychiatrist. Yes, you may be able to prescribe Ativan or the like to treat panic disorders, but this hardly puts you into the category of “research scientist.”

                As a psychiatry type, you of ALL people should be (a) sensitive to the beliefs of others, instead of INSULTING anyone who happens to hold a belief that differs from your own, (b) aware that you are fallible, and that your ONLY advantage is that you can look at situations dispassionately rather than with a “vested personal interest,” and (c) aware of just how little we really understand about the basic workings of the human mind… it’s far from an exact science at this point, is it? It’s really almost an “art,” rather than a “science.” Two psychiatrists, with the same educational background, the same knowledge base, and the same “basic procedure” may make totally different determinations, may implement totally different treatments, and/or may have totally different results.

                Science… REAL science… doesn’t work that way. Hard science actually REQUIRES that all data must be entirely repeatable. The so-called “Cold fusion” debacle of a few decades ago got a lot of press attention, and the press (and the politically-oriented types) fell in love with it. But this proved not to be repeatable, and as of today this “scientific claim” has been pretty much rejected. It turned out that the data was fudged, and that the experiment was flawed.

                We were told by the “political pseudo-scientists” (of which Dawkins is another great example… and I mention him a lot because I met the man once… and he behaved like a spoiled brat when those around him didn’t blindly accept his declarations of “universals truth”) that “Cold Fusion was real.” We were told that only “oil-company-driven special interests” were behind trying to suppress it.

                All of these people were simply wrong. “Cold fusion” didn’t ever happen… it was a fraud, based upon a bad data set, based upon a flawed experimental process. And with the sole focus, as it seemed, to get huge government grants to “further study” the topic.

                • Sassan says:

                  Psychology with focus on neuroscience. It means my ultimate goal is to be a psychologist as a university and do research to advance the field. I am not studying to be a psychiatrist.

                  Again, the scientific method supports me only due to the fact that I am not the one making the claim that a higher power exists. You are the one making extraordinary claims to a supernatural that is a creation and figment of mankind’s imaginations. Since I am not making the claim, I take the natural science approach. In taking the natural science approach, I base life on reality, logic, and evidence. You making a claim to a higher power is equivalent to me believing in the Spaghetti Monster. No difference, same logic. I would have to “prove” that the Spaghetti Monster exists. There is no way to get around this basic logic and reasoning which is fundamental in that it is your responsibility to “prove” the existence of god, not my responsibility to disprove (even though there is a vast expanse of knowledge we have now which discredits the need for a higher power). I will repeat: WHAT CAN BE ASSERTED WITHOUT PROOF, CAN BE DISMISSED WITHOUT PROOF.

            • Sassan says:

              btw, Obama never went to a Muslim school. That was debunked. Just thought you might be interested in the truth. And again in regards to the Nazi movement, please go read all the quotes and information I have posted below (just scroll down the thread) and you will see it and then reply.

              • Cary says:

                You are wrong.

                The attached link is to a very short article. It’s from CNN (hardly an arm of the “right wing”).


                Here’s the text: “Allegations that Sen. Barack Obama was educated in a radical Muslim school known as a “madrassa” are not accurate, according to CNN reporting.

                Insight Magazine, which is owned by the same company as The Washington Times, reported on its Web site last week that associates of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-New York, had unearthed information the Illinois Democrat and likely presidential candidate attended a Muslim religious school known for teaching the most fundamentalist form of Islam.

                Obama lived in Indonesia as a child, from 1967 to 1971, with his mother and stepfather and has acknowledged attending a Muslim school, but an aide said it was not a madrassa.”

                So… did I say that Obama attended a Madrassa? For that matter, did I say that Obama is a Muslim (in fact, I believe he is an Atheist, but he’s willing to let Muslims believe he is a Muslim and willing to let Christians believe he’s a Christian… mainly, I think he’s an “Obamian.”)

                I said that Obama attended a Muslim school. This is true.

                Can I have an apology?

              • NehmaNoor says:

                Sassan, I thank you for spending so much time writing all of your comments. As I believe you are Persian, I would like to first wish you a Happy Persian New Year. I am not sure if you observe Persian customs but if you accept my well wishes towards you and your family during this season it would be my honor.

                I have no interest in discussing all of the topics that Cary and you have spoken many times now. I wish not to get involved, attacked or called any names by entering into discussion about these topics. I also am not interested in other people commenting on my dialogue with Sassan.

                There is one area that I take particular interest in and would be honored if you would consider. You mentioned wanting evidence of God’s existence by saying “All you have to do is provide one piece of evidence that shows god exists or have him come down himself and provide evidence. Then, there would be no debate. Science is open to questioning and reason but what that means is that you have to provide EVIDENCE, not nonsense through primitive belief and texts.”

                My question to you, Sassan, is this: would you be willing to ask God (even though you don’t believe He exists) to come down Himself and provide the evidence to you directly that He exists?
                If your answer is yes, I would suggest that you simply do that. Please don’t wait for humans to prove God’s existence to you, consider allowing God Himself to prove it to you. If you are open to the idea, just ask Him! As strange as this may sound, especially if you feel like you are talking to nobody, please consider doing this if you are honestly willing to find out for yourself if He exists or not.

                By this I do not mean that you should consult a religious teacher or try to study any more about theories, science or spirituality. Rather, take the direct method…literally ask “God, I don’t believe you exist, I feel stupid asking this (because I don’t believe you exist or hear me), but I must have evidence that you do or do not exist so if you exist…show me yourself… prove your existence to me. I want to see evidence and I want to be 100% sure”

                I guess it could be your own, self-led experiment (I’m not a scientist but if you wanted to you could use the scientific method here: with the purpose being to find out if God demonstrates His own existence when requested to do so?)

                If you are not interested in this method, that is fine. Someone who truly was interested in finding the proof one way or the other, would acknowledge that all forms of investigation should be considered…including this very simple one of asking the being in question to display Himself and verify His own existence. If this is too strange or “spiritual” for you, I urge you to remember the option for some other time when perhaps you will be open to this idea.

                I would be fascinated to hear of your findings. I am confident that there is absolute truth regarding the existence/non-existence of God and believe that if you are open to finding the absolute, undeniable, visible and clear evidence one way or the other…you will find it and you will be 100% sure.

                I have additional questions for you that I hope to share in follow up dialogue.

                If you would rather not reply publicly, email me at moc.liamgnull@roonamhen

          • Cary says:

            Just one more piece of information… a little more digging into how the Nazis treated Christmas turned this up. I wanted to find another item, in case anyone thought that the date of the article I just put up might put it into question. So… here is some actual Nazi “Christmas Propaganda” for you to review.


          • matt says:

            Sassan you are stuck in your education of unbelief.. The Bible is primitive you say… Yes Jesus has been around forever.

    • Kim says:

      Cary, you are right on! Awesome! Seems as though you’ve done your homework. Wow, That’s some good material. Rock on!!!

  67. solusipse says:

    Maybe Jesus will come back to face off against Mahdi (classic Gog/Magog Armeggedon) and all of the delusional fundamentalists will destroy each other in pursuit of “humanity” (like right to lifers murdering abortionists). If only there’s a Noah’s Ark to shield the remnants of enlightened civilization to repopulate the world with intelligent life.

    • Sassan says:

      Actually, Jesus is supposed to come back march with Mahdi to Jerusalem with over-sized elephants, donkeys, and other animals. Remember, Jesus is also a prophet in the Islamic faith.

      • Cary says:

        This goes back to my statement, earlier, about how “evil” isn’t really the opposite of good, but rather is a CORRUPTION of good.

        Mohammed initially (during his pre-Medina period) tried to claim that he was the “fulfillment” of the other Abrahamic faiths. He claimed to have been visited, while working as a herdsman for his uncle (he was orphaned), by an Archangel of Light, who he identified as Gabriel. He was then given a series of “revelations” by this “Angel of Light” over a number of years, as Islam claims.

        Atheists will reject this as superstition and nonsense, but non-atheists can recognize that this “Angel of Light” may be a legitimate description of his visitor… but not an “Angel of God” as much as a “former Angel of God” who’d rebelled.

        The most central tenet of Christianity is that Jesus was not just a prophet, but was in fact an “aspect of God”… one of three aspects of God of which we are aware… we call them the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. This is a source of great confusion for many people… which is why I use the term “aspect” rather than the more distinct terms most of the time. Because Jesus WAS GOD, by his own claim. He was not “created” in the same sense we were. Remember, the relationship between a creator and a creation… or “creature”… is that of a being with one nature making something of a different nature. “Begetting,” on the other hand, as in parenting, means that the “begotten” thing is of the same nature as the “begetter.” Parenthood is the closest we, in our finite minds, can get to comprehending the nature of this relationship… hence the “father and son” description. But the reality is certainly far more complex than we can comprehend.

        It’s like imagining being a 2-dimensional being, and trying to perceive a cube. We would only be able to comprehend a single face of that cube at any moment, even though the cube is a single object.

        So… according to Christianity, JESUS IS GOD. He is not the “same aspect of God” as “the Father” is, nor “the Holy Spirit” is… but all are “facets” of God, existing at a level we cannot comprehend.

        Mohammed missed this entirely. Whether you attribute his missing this to his lack of understanding of what Christianity says about Christ, or due to a Hellish attempt to undermine the divinity of Christ, may be debated… but the Jesus who is part of the Muslim faith is UNRELATED to the Jesus who is the center of Christianity.

        Jesus never claimed to be a “good man” or a “great teacher.” He claimed to be God in human form. For a Hindu to claim that wouldn’t be terribly shocking, but in any of the monotheistic belief systems, this is simply the most shocking claim imaginable.

        He was either a madman, or one of the most evil men ever to walk the Earth, or he was telling the truth. He left us no other options. He didn’t intend to.

        The “Jesus” who Mohammed discussed, however, was merely a man, a minor prophet, who helped prepare the way for Mohammed.

        So, either Mohammed seized on a mythical figure and tried to reinvent that figure in purely literary form to better fit his own narrative, or Mohammed was under orders to try to CORRUPT the image of Jesus in the minds of Mohammed’s followers. There really isn’t any other option. Because the Jesus who Mohammed describe does not in any way mesh with the HISTORICALLY RECORDED Jesus, much less the one that early Christians wrote about from first-hand knowledge.

  68. girlfulfilled says:

    I am familiar with both, the islamic end time prophecy, as well as the Christian end time prophecy. Interestingly enough, both prophecies are two sides of the same coin. The Christian “anti-christ” is the Islamic messiah, or the Mahdi (12th Imam). They both come riding in on a white horse. (An interesting sidebar- many radical islamic military figures have stalled white stallions in the hopes that they would be the fullfillment of the prophecy of the 12th imam/coming messiah Including Sadaam Hussein, and current leader, Ahmadinejad!!!)

    MANY more correlations apply to both prophecies, that bear out what I am saying- but, I will stop here, and allow you to do your own research and draw your own conclusions.

  69. Usual Suspect says:

    Why is the map of the middle-east in English in the background? Someone didn’t do their homework.

  70. Prophecy Gal says:

    Turn or Burn! There is no other name under heaven by which men are saved. EVERY KNEE (that includes ALL mankind..yes you Muslims, Atheists, Jews, Agnostics, etc.,) shall bow and tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him would not perish but have everlasting life. A great sacrifice conveying a great love for ALL!!

  71. girlfulfilled says:

    I thought I’d share a link for anyone interested in researching the correlation between the Christian end time prophecy’s “anti-christ” and the Islamic end time prophecy’s messiah…. enjoy:

  72. Prophecy Gal's Betterhalf says:

    The film is simply conveying the Muslim’s beliefs in the return of their Messiah. A belief based on a man’s(they say prophet’s beliefs). Many people believe there are many ways to God and many men have written books to explain their beliefs like Mohammed. However, the Bible was conveyed to men by God. Not man’s take on the world. The Bible has stood the test of time and has historical evidences supporting it.
    It is truly intended to help man to know who God is how and to understand this world and who He is and how we fit in this big picture of life. Without learning about God and his character you will never understand why we are not living in a “perfect world” and everything is not perfect. By exploring “God’s Word” you will begin to gain a bigger picture of the world and what has happened that has brought us to the place we are know. How our lives are brief and that we all leave this world someday and the importance of that. Most of all, that God loves ALL mankind…each and every person…and only wishes to share eternity with us all. Seek God..through the Bible…and let God show you His great plan and love for you.

  73. Teri says:

    wow. where’s the love? God has put the people of Islam in my heart. I pray that His love will spread throughout the Middle East. I can’t go, but I pray for those who do.

    • Cary says:


      You’re right to feel love for these people… but please, don’t refer to them as “the people of Islam.”

      There are many Muslims throughout the world. Many are Muslims by virtue of birth, and have never been given the opportunity to so much as CONSIDER any other belief system (at penalty of death, recall). I call them “MINOs”… “Muslims In Name Only.” They may carry the outer trapping of Islam, but they obey the commands given by God to their hearts. They would never cheat an innocent, regardless of whether or not that person is Muslim (despite the CLEAR COMMANDMENT IN THE KORAN that they should, and MUST, “cheat” us at every turn). The same goes for every other “Koranic order to behave badly towards non-Muslims.”

      Yes, I know lots of Muslims who hear the truth in their hearts and, despite commandments from their evil “faith leaders” will not do as ordered. These people may die for this, too… but doing so, they would die “for Christ” even if they don’t know it.

      These people are those who you should pray for the most strongly.

      There are also those whose hearts might be open, should God speak to them. In the Muslim world, they may actually be more common than in the “enlightened West.” I strongly suspect that there are more “hardened hearts” in the “Secular Humanist” movement (where they’re taught to think of themselves as God) than there are in Islam (where they are, at least, taught to believe in something higher than themselves).

      But I would be cautious about being too hopeful for those who are leading the Islamic world today. Many of them have dedicated themselves totally to this hellish worldview. They basically willingly serve Lucifer, albeit in his “disguise” where he’s pretending to be God. They may have at one point in their lives heard the Holy Spirit… the aspect of God which, among other things, is the basis of what we call our “consciences”… but today, they have no such impediment to service of their “Master.” They follow his commands to kill children, to lie, to cheat, to steal, to deceive, to destroy, and to corrupt… and they do so willingly.

      I suspect very much that these people are already “owned” by Hell. Praying that they’ll have a “change of heart” may not be the most productive use of your prayer time. Pray, instead, for the innocent oppressed who have not yet been fully converted to this evil. Those who still understand, in the core of their beings, the knowledge that God puts in all of us… that hatred is from Hell… that lies are from Hell… that FORCED CONVERSION is not what the TRUE GOD would ever want… and that God wants WILLING, VOLUNTARY servants.

      This is why we’ve been given free will. This is why the “secular humanists” are free to reject God, and to mock God. God could easily simply step in and end it all… but once he does so, our ability to CHOOSE is forever removed, isn’t it? We can only “voluntarily choose God” if we still have the ability to choose.

      And by giving us the ability to choose, we’ve inherently also been given the ability to choose incorrectly.

      Pray for those who can still choose… but recognize that some have chosen, and have gone so far along their chosen path that they cannot be recovered. Those who order their minions to murder children… those who CELEBRATE the murder of innocents, simply because “they’re Jews” or “they’re Americans”… those people have committed themselves to evil.

  74. Jim Hobson says:

    Iran will be easy to deal with. They are horrible at military operations and have never faced a real foe.

    The problem is in Europe where large Muslim populations can hide among the Europeans making them more difficult to deal with. But deal with them we will.

    The biggest issue will be how long will it take the West to wake up to these idiots.

    • Cary says:

      Jim, I’m afraid you’re thinking in “conventional warfare” terms. That’s not what’s likely to happen.

      China obtained US nuclear weapon designs, US missile designs, etc. These were transferred (in exchange for illegal campaign contributions) during the Clinton administration, remember. Does the name “Weng Ho Li” ring a bell?

      China is the sole supporter of North Korea. North Korea would not exist (as a nation in its current form, I mean) except that China props it up. North Korea is like China’s “pit bull”… China uses N.K. to do those things that it would be “impolitic” for China to do itself… like selling weapons to enemies of the United States, like funding Al Qaeda, etc. China doesn’t do it… N.K. does. But China PROTECTS N.K. and gave its marching orders to Kim Il Sung, Kim Jong Il, and so on down the line.

      Why? Because China wants to defeat the United States… without having to fire a shot themselves. And so far, they’ve been doing a fine job of it, haven’t they? So, when there were clues that some aspects of the 9-11 plot tied back to China, this went largely ignored.

      I’m not saying that 9/11 was the doing of China, nor that they’re responsible for it directly… but they DID support those who were responsible, and did so knowingly.

      Now, you’re looking at Iran (armed with Chinese weapons, don’t forget) as a single entity… a single nation-state facing a much larger nation-state, the USA. That’s “yesterday’s thinking,” Jim.

      Instead, realize… historically, you have a CULTURE, centered upon a religion called Islam, which seeks to create a UNIFIED STATE. This has not happened in the past, because we’ve had local dictators running their own countries who would not give up personal power, and because we’ve had the final two remaining sects of Islam, Shi’a and Sunni, arguing over which of their two versions of Islam was the most true.

      Now, we’re watching all the dictators being deposed, and we’re seeing the victory of Shi’a over Sunni (Saddam was, after all, the strongest of the Sunni). And we’re seeing all of these “local democracy movements” turning out to be connected. We hear that they’re all tied to this or that organization (“Al Qaeda,” or “The Muslim Brotherhood” or so forth) but this isn’t the whole story. What we’re seeing is a variety of Muslim sub-groups, all working together under the tacit centralized leadership of Iran’s leaders.

      So… we’re not talking about “Iranians.” Don’t forget, many of the (innocent) people of Iran don’t WANT this. No, we’re talking about a GLOBAL MOVEMENT.

      And you’re thinking of conventional warfare… that’s a mistake. Instead, think of Guerilla warfare… in every nation in Europe, throughout the United States, and in any other place where those who now lead a rapidly-uniting Islamic “Caliphate” see a likely obstacle to their ascension to global dominance.

      It’s not “Iran.” It’s every “true Muslim” (ie, those who believe in the infallibility of the ENTIRE KORAN, and the infallibility of “The Prophet Mohammed” and so forth) who are going to do as their strange version of God (who Christians and Jews both would likely agree is actually Lucifer) commands them to do.

      Imagine it, Jim… the word goes up, and simultaneous multinational attacks on Israel occur, using some older Russian and a lot more modern Chinese arms. At the same moment, on the same day, “sleepers” throughout the US blow up infrastructure… destroying bridges, power lines, power plants… contaminate water supplies, spread lethal diseases at major sporting events, airports, shopping malls, etc… all on the command of a single, unified command structure who have this capability, who have willing soldiers who truly believe that by doing this (murdering millions of innocents) they’re “doing God’s will”.

      Imagine it. And, if you’re a smart guy… prepare for it.

      I’m hoping I won’t be here to see this happen, but none of us know exactly what happens when. But we DO know that this is coming.

      Iran, by itself, would be harmless… but we’re not talking about “just Iran, by itself.”

      Don’t fool yourself.

      • Jim says:

        I am not taking any religious side; I just want to point out a few facts. First, Al Qaeda is funded by the USA, not China, or NK. Google “Al-Qaeda 100% Pentagon Run.” This has been proven and even the US now admits it. Another point many of you have forgotten is that the USA, Britain, and Israel have been using depleted uranium (DU) in the Middle East for several years. Many scientists have predicted that Israel has actually destroyed itself with the use of DU; they will soon be unable to reproduce due to the DU destroying the reproductive systems. This is also the case for much of the Middle East since the gulf war and the following war. Much of the US is also in danger of the same problem due to vets coming back from those wars, and unable to have children. Not to mention the above ground nuclear tests done for years, United States ability to conceive has been going downhill steadily for several years. Check for yourself, hundreds of thousands are sick and not being taken care of. No doubt the DU has drifted into Iran as well, so Iran is unlikely to grow much, the population is likely to start declining unless they start immigrating others into Iran.
        Those that talk about being free in the US, give it up, the US is considered by most of the world to be the largest Police State ever. Don’t take my word for it; look up X-President Regan’s Paul Craig Roberts, an extremely patriotic US citizen that has given up hope that the US will ever return to the constitution. As seen in the past few weeks, Obama has taken the US to war, yet again without the permission of the people or even the US Congress; completely against the constitution. It has been suggested, although I have seen no proof, the USA and Britain are using DU weapons in their effort to help Libya, (some help.) Tourism in the USA is down considerably because people from other countries will not take the abuse the US government is putting on people at airports, train stations, on highways, etc. with the TSA.
        If a war does come about in which the USA is attacked, there will be no one left to defend it as the vast majority of its military is involved in other conflicts or just stationed at some 180 US bases around the world.
        As for China, they seem to want war with no one, although that could change quickly. They have been going around the world trying to help nations, without insisting, as the US does, “Now you must be like us.” However, consider Japan now, with its radiation hitting most of Asia, China too will be irradiated.
        There really isn’t much hope left unless all countries start getting serious about peace. If you would like to see what DU does, and has done in Iraq, check out this documentary –

  75. Hi,

    End of the world has been predicted in Matt.13.v24-30 that at the end of the age, I will bundle up the Tares, the sons of Satan who are unfaithful to Abraham. They are bundled up in Israel and many countries will expel Jews from their countries before the Final Atomic War.

  76. A time to betray?

    Al Mahdi And the End Of Time: ‘Izzat and Arif quote Ka’b al Ahbar as saying: I find the Mahdi recorded in the books of the Prophets… For instance, the Book of Revelation (6:2) says: “And I saw and behold a white horse. He that sat on him…went forth conquering and to conquer.”

    The two well known Egyptian authors, Muhammad Ibn ‘Izzat and Muhammad ‘Arif then go on to say: It is clear that this man is the Mahdi who will ride the white horse and judge by the Qur’an (with justice) and with whom will be men with marks of prostration on their foreheads [Marks on their foreheads from bowing in prayer with their head to the ground five times daily].

    However, there seems to be a fatal Islamic “misunderstanding” here, because the rider on the white horse in none other than Jesus Of Nazareth:

    “Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war.

    His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself (666, Revelation 13:16-18, 14:1, 7:4)…and His name is called The Word of God.

    And the armies in heaven (the Christians), clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS” (Book of Revelation 19:11-16).

    Israel shall be destroyed? In fact the opposite will come to pass.

    • Cary says:

      This is true, but the Muslims may well wreak havoc on the rest of the world on that day. I doubt, very much, that the “unified attack” on Israel will happen without terrorist attacks throughout the rest of the “western world” on that same day.

      Christians are assured that Israel will survive essentially unharmed. Jews have no such overt guarantee, but they do believe that they’ll exist long after their enemies are gone… they just don’t have as much detail as Christians have as to how this happens.

      Muslims, on the other hand, must inherently believe that Israel WILL BE UTTERLY DESTROYED. Otherwise, they will not attempt (again) what already failed so miserably in the early 1970s (albeit without nuclear weapons, which they now have, supplied by China to Iran through North Korea)

      The “certainty of success” will cause the attack… and the USA and Europe will, for some unknown reason, not stand by Israel on that day. I suspect we’ll be tied up pretty handily with massive “domestic terrorism” strikes within our borders on that same day.

      Of course, only by the utter failure of the Islamic invasion of Israel, and a “revision” to Islam by the newly-appeared “Hidden Mahdi,” can a global unification occur.

      Even for those of you who don’t believe in the “religious” side of this, realize that HUMAN FORCES, far more powerful than the Iranians, are driving this conflict. They don’t want global catastrophie, they want to bring about the “conversion” of Islam into something that can play well with others… as part of the new “world order.”

      Israel will survive. But will New York, or Houston, or Los Angeles, or DC? How about Berlin, or London, or Paris… or Rome? How much damage will happen due to the thousands upon thousands of sleeper cells now fully functional throughout the West?

      Christians know, with certainty, the “end game,” but we also know, with similar certainty, that for a period of time, EVIL WILL WIN. This will be the final “production test” for humankind… allowing those who’ve failed God’s “QC testing” to date to have a second chance to rework themselves into something God-worthy. But it’s not gonna be pretty, and only a small portion of the remainder will be recoverable, I’m afraid.

      Israel won’t be destroyed… but don’t count on much else surviving intact.

    • Kim says:

      Right on! Excellent!

  77. Houman247FreeIran says:

    In the Name of IRAN ,

    The Annihilation of the ISLAMIC REGIME of Rape, Terror cult occupying Iran for 32 years will be the marking of Greatest begining of time for Peace coming to this world… Unless some crazy westerner with His or Her NEW WORLD ORDER BS is planning to bring your own kind of messiah…!!!
    As an Iranian I will tell all of you Americans and non Iranian Friends, PLEASE, PUT YOUR DIFFERENCES ASIDE FOR ONCE AND LISTEN TO THE “MESSAGE”… If you do not Like the Messenger, Please Please LISTEN AT LEAST TO THIS MESSAGE … I am using the words of Prince Reza Pahlavi which I am a big fan of and I know one day he will be the Leader in our country either as a King or President. REZA PAHLAVI is the number one candidate as a SECULAR DEMOCRATIC LEADER in MY eyes and many like me who are young … PLEASE PEOPLE PLEASE LISTEN TO THE MESSAGE, EVEN IF YOU HATE THE MESSENGER , PLEASE LISTEN TO THE MESSEGE AT LEAST, THEN JUDGE !
    This is not a Joke, WHY WOULD I or us Iranians who are dying to go back to our Country and be able to see the Place where once we were born and lived FREED from the hands of these UnHuman leaders which they cal lthemselves Men of G-d(AYATOLLAH), We JUST WANT ONCE AGAIN to be able to see our people to be PROUD and Feel Proud to be called PERSIAN ONCE AGAIN and not have to be Worried about how they will be treated at the gate of every airport when the Check In Person is about to check your passport and sees it says YOU ARE FROM IRAN and be ashamed and be worried if they are going to go through embarrassing interview and search as usual …. Please Be the Open Minded Westerners That You are in this Case, A FREE IRAN, WILL BRING U.S. TO A GLORIOUS STATE all over the world, That is a Guarantee..
    American-Iranians have always been fans of the west and continue to be, From the Charlie Chaplin and Harold Loyd Era to Frank Sinatra and Dean Martin and James Dean…. The Iranians In America have accomplished so much even here in america as Immigrants and continue to do so , People such as the CEO of Youtube a Young 26-27 yr old Iranian, or the Inventor of EBAY or VP of Yahoo , OR MAYOR OF BEVERLY HILLS Mr. Jimmy Delshad, An Iranian Jew like Myself, Or the Most popular Mr Bijaan who is a famous designer for ALL THE U.S. President’s and makes their Suits from President George Bush Sr. to President Obama’s Inauguration Suit …. Even The Late Beloved ELizabeth Taylor who was married or dated the Iranian Embassador for Years back in 1970′s… Guys, Please Put 2 AND 2 TOGETHER, We are Persians, We have history from 3000 yrs ago and we have never given up our Iranian Identity, Don’t you think we still can Exist along other nations in Peace and Prosperity ??? We only live once , The Leaders in IRAN, They believe WE SHOULD ONLY LIVE FOR ISLAM and NOTHING ELSE, us Persians Believe Do good to others as you would like them do to you, Good Deeds, Good Words, Good Thoughts Those are the words and belief of us Iranians and the Original Religion of IRAN which is Zoroastrian…, Would you like to know the ISLAMIC LEADERS AND THE MULLAH’s OPINION ABOUT THAT ?? I am sure the answer is pretty outlined Above in the Video if you have not ever heard anything about their views by now, You should NOW !!!! A saying in Persian that says ” When ever you catch the Fish, It’s always Fresh”, Let’s start this year with a Fresh look on Peace for Iranians and freeing them from the hands of this Evil Regime…
    Gd Bless the United States and Gd Bless Iranian Nation
    United We Stand and Evil Falls
    Free Iran , Free the World

    • Cary says:

      Hello, Houman

      You are one of those who I want to support… and who the USA’s current president (lower case intentionally) threw to the wolves not long ago.

      I know many people from Iran. There are many, many good people there, and what you say is a wonderful reminder for those who think of you as “cartoon bad-guys.” This is not true, obviously. The Iranian people are HUMAN BEINGS. Many in your nation are committed to evil, it’s true… but as the saying goes, “evil knows no borders and has no politics.”

      Iran WILL be freed from these tyrants. But be very careful not to choose worse tyrant to replace them. Instead, listen to the calling of your “conscience,” the voice of God speaking directly to your soul. Follow this calling as well as you can, and if your MIND, or worse yet, the orders of a “superior” order you to violate this, FOLLOW GOD’S VOICE IN YOUR HEART.

      Christians call this “the Holy Spirit.” It is the tangible, direct influence of God’s will on our souls. And this is given to EVERY HUMAN, even those who have never even heard of, much less accepted, the “truth” from God. We ALL know the true commands of God, even if we’re not aware of where this comes from.

      I do not “hate the messenger” and I doubt that anyone else here will either. If what you say is your sincere, conscience-driven belief… and not a lie (as so many of your leaders would have you do)… we embrace you as a friend and fellow soul, created by God and loved by Him.

      All mankind was made by God, and all are desired by him to be his willing, voluntary servants and children.

      Keep an open mind, and listen to the voice of the Spirit of God in your heart, above all else. Reject the commands of those who embrace evil, even if it leads to your death… because that’s not the end for any of us, and if you die, murdered because you’ve obeyed the commands God puts into your heart, you’ll be rewarded in a way that the “faultless Koranic Muslim” murderers of children could never even imagine (but will doubtless be reminded of for the remainder of the eternity they’ll spend in Hell).

      • missy says:

        All people are human beings. When is everyone going to learn this. I am so tired of the hatte based on race, culture, and religiose beleifs. I think everyone has it wrong and going to have egg on theor face when the ‘great one’ comes and says to everyone…I made all of you, why cant you just get along!

  78. Iestynn O'Brauchain says:

    For all the good christian folk in this thread:
    Be open minded, and please check out this short essay.

  79. wonder9999 says:

    Does anyone listen starting at 2:09 into the video? Can you not clearly hear the word ‘SATAN’ being chanted?

  80. Sassan says:

    Let me give you a quote from the great American physicist Steven Weinberg: “With our without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion”.

    • Cary says:

      That’s an interesting argument, Sassan. But it falls flat…

      Why? Because the terms “evil” and “good” must be defined. Where do these concepts even come from?

      What is good? If there was nothing except for mere biochemical existence, what basis would we have for calling one form of behavior “good” and another “evil?”

      Was Nazi morality inferior to Christian morality during World War II? (And again, let’s not toss out the BALD-FACED LIE that the Nazis were Christians – we know that the Nazis attempted to CONTROL the churches, but that they were in fact overtly hostile to them and would have preferred to simply eliminate them completely. For the Nazis, THE STATE was to be God… and no competing concept was allowable.)

      Has there ever been any human morality which has held it as admirable for someone to run away from their responsibilities, or to betray those closest to them? If all morality is simply a construct… how do you explain the remarkably CONSISTENCY of human morality throughout history, and the fact that we universally treat some forms of behavior as “moral improvements” over others?

      Religion isn’t the basis of morality, nor is morality the basis of religion. Morality is the way in which we compare our personal behavior, and the behavior of those we observe, to a “higher standard” than we can create for ourselves. Where can this come from but from some form of “God?” Can you give me another potential source for us to compare “Morality System A” to “Morality System B” and somehow conclude that one or the other is somehow “better?”

      Christians, and most other religions, believe that this sense of right and wrong is the “voice of God” speaking directly to our souls… or, more poetically, to our “hearts” (ie, not the muscular organ, but the core of our being). Christians call this the “Holy Spirit,” a “divine conduit” between our souls and God.

      It is true that you can find many examples of people who did great evil, and claimed to do it in the name of God. But even the tiniest amount of research will demonstrate just the opposite… that these people who did evil did so because they wanted power, or because they were filled with hatred and wanted to justify it somehow, or for some other similarly NON-RELIGIOUS reason.

      In these cases, they didn’t truly believe… rather, they saw the believe of those “lesser than themselves” as being a tool that they could use to control those “lessers.”

      Hitler was raised by Jewish relations after being orphaned. This is where he developed his hatred of Judaism and of the Jewish people. He was never a Christian, and was in fact very much a “New Age” sort of guy (after all, the Thule Society which spawned the Nazis was all about the “Atlantean origin of the Aryan people” and so forth). He was an animal-rights guy, a teetotaler, a vegetarian (bordering on what we’d call a Vegan today). He’s practically the poster-boy for “Code Pink” today!

      He hated all “non-Original-Aryan” belief systems, but he recognized that the Christian church was most dominant in Germany… so he attempted to seize control of those churches, giving the ministers “authorized points to discuss,” changing the words to hymns, and so forth, and shutting down any church which failed to submit to his will.

      My point? You’re associating Evil with Religion. Your wrong. Instead, EVIL WILL ATTEMPT TO CORRUPT OR REPLACE TRUE FAITH AT EVERY TURN.

      There are no “evil people” or “good people.” All people are creations of God and are thus “good” in that sense, and all people, to one extent or another, reject and disobey God and thus are “bad” in that sense.

      Some people choose to embrace evil, and some try their hardest (though never quite successfully) to reject it. Evil, of course, is simply “willful opposition to the rules God has given us, and which we can feel in our hearts.”

      So… people do evil when they choose to do evil. And people do good when they choose to do good.

      And some evil people will try to justify their evil by disguising it in the trappings of good. You can’t blame the trappings on the act, however… only the person who’s chosen the act.

      • Sassan says:

        Again, you mask your insecurity and lack of knowledge about science and scientific principles into long (mostly garbled) sentences.

        Our morality comes from our existence as human beings. There are different facts to it but it is based strongly on several factors which include very much human evolution and the development of our species. With our higher brain cortices (I study neuroscience) we have higher cognitive processes and are aware of our physical surroundings and can ponder our own mortality. This is where religion comes in the picture.

        What is moral you say?? What is “good and evil”?? Morality or “your morality” is not the morality of mankind. Morality does not include nonsensical so called morality principles such as sexual issues or “waiting until you are married to have sex”. Morality includes right or wrong such as theft, murder, and whether or not one is a good person or not. This is not only tends to be innate in us but is passed down to us and taught to us by our parents, our culture, and society to an extent. This is esp. true of the basic morals of right and wrong. Our morals COME NO PLACE FROM god. You think you don’t kill or rape a person because of god?? Do you know that people actually believe this and believe therefore atheists are rapists and evil people?? Do you wonder why the vast majority of physicists and biologists are atheist?? Are they all immoral and chose this profession?? Some people like to claim science and religion can go hand in hand but I disagree. You can be religious and PRETEND science doesn’t contradict religion, but in reality it very much does.

        Let me ask you, do you think that evolution is just “another theory” and that the earth is less than 10,000 years old?? You claimed Darwin was like an “atheist prophet” which is again nonsense. He was just an amazing human being who understood and was able to explain (and now we have demonstrated through not only fossil finds but through DNA comparisons and analysis of how similar A-T-G-C is an all species of animals) that evolution takes place and is FACT. The definition of a theory in science is not the same as in layman terms. You should read the book “The Moral Animal” by Robert Wright.

        • Cary says:


          I am in no way “insecure.” Quite the contrary. I, unlike you however, am not delusional. I do not believe that my finite mind and finite knowledge can possibly encompass the entire universe. I know that I cannot know all which is knowable. Yet, evidently, YOU DO BELIEVE THAT. After all, that’s central to your “Secular Humanist” faith – that you, personally, are the highest thing that exists in your universe. Right?

          As for my knowledge of scientific principles, I’d ask you to tell us your own scientific pedigree. What discoveries have you found? What inventions have you created? What truths have you established? If you believe yourself to be an authority on the scientific method, and believe that I am not… please, support your claims. I’ll wait.

          And as far as my sentences being “mostly garbled,” that’s either an indication that you’re incapable of above-grade-school reading comprehension, or you’re just so stubbornly ignorant that you’re incapable of paying attention to anything which doesn’t fit into your preconceived worldview.

          Of course, the REAL reason you said that wasn’t to make any real point… it was a weak attempt to stir up anger. It’s just one step above calling me a “poopy head.”

          Try again…

          “Our morality comes from our existence as human beings.” A truly nonsensical statement if I’ve ever seen one. We exist, therefore we are moral? Really?

          “There are different facts to it but it is based strongly on several factors which include very much human evolution and the development of our species.” Yet you fail to state even a SINGLE ONE. You toss out a few words, intended to muddle and obfuscate, but you DO know that you didn’t actually say ANYTHING there, right?

          All you just did was the “Secular Humanist” version of a “Hail Mary” prayer… in this case a “Hail Darwin” prayer, I guess we’d call it.

          I figured you were a student. You’re way too cocky, with so little actual knowledge to support it.

          And a neurology student… not surprising that you have the typical juvenile “the universe revolves around me” attitude, paired with the “I’m smarter than everyone else, because I’m ME, DAMMIT!” attitude. You may be intelligent, but you’re not really very smart, are you?

          You know what? A “higher brain cortex” says NOTHING about morality whatsoever. It does relate to REASONING ability, but you’ve managed to make no connection whatsoever between reasoning and morality… nor has anyone, in all of the history of the human species. This is why we have separate disciplines for the study of each.

          All you’ve said is that we’re able to reason. But that just means that we’re able to decide what’s better for us, personally, at any given instant, even looking into the future.

          You see a man in the river, drowning. Unless you are horribly miswired, you’ll simultaneously experience two feelings. First, a belief that you should try to rescue this person. Another, a desire to keep yourself safe and avoid danger.

          What decides between the two? That’s where MORALITY comes into play. It isn’t the “herd instinct” and it’s not the self-preservation instinct. It is the thing, higher than either instinct, which tells you that you should put yourself at risk to save another. You can IGNORE that, but it is universally accepted that doing so would be immoral.

          There is no “my morality,” you see. I can pretend that I have my own morality, or you can pretend that you have your own, but both are held in comparison to some higher… some REAL morality, which we all feel at our core, and which everyone recognizes at heart. You may claim that it’s your right to break an agreement you’ve made with someone else… that may fit in with your “personal morality.” But the moment someone does the same to you, you’ll be complaining how it’s not fair, won’t you?

          Curiously, you bring up sexual morality here… as is typical, you’re arguing against an argument which was not made by anyone in this discussion, least of all me. This is, however, what you “Church of Secular Humanism” types like to do… you’ll shift ground on a moment’s notice, each time you feel that you’re at the disadvantage. You’ll make up Dawkinian straw-man arguments, barely manage to make your points against those, and still stick your chest out and pretend that you’ve somehow “won.” It’s pathetic, really.

          If you wish to discuss sexual morality, we can, though. Just suffice it to say that, like every other physical fact of reality… God likes sex. HE INVENTED IT.

          Evil isn’t the opposite of good, it’s the corruption of something that is, in itself, good.

          Food is a good thing, but gluttony isn’t, and it has clear consequences, well beyond the spiritual (ie, obesity, etc). On the other end, Bulimia is clearly an “evil” as well… a perversion of the NATURAL and PLEASURABLE act of eating. There’s a reason that these things are called “eating disorders.”

          Sex is a good thing, but sex can be corrupted in the same fashion. Treat it as a means to itself and it’s sort of like bulimia… experiencing the pleasure of eating while losing the true purpose of the action. Sex is a union between two people. It is best when the union is on not merely the physical level, but on the intellectual and emotional levels as well… and is best, as well, when two people who are joinign their bodies are also joining every other aspect of their lives. That’s the INTENT… for us to join ourselves at EVERY level, not merely at the physical, and not merely for a momentary “tingly thrill.”

          You toss out a lot of other terms as well… “theft, murder, and whether or not one is a good person or not.” And you say “This is not only tends to be innate in us but is passed down to us and taught to us by our parents, our culture, and society to an extent.

          So, you think that this is all arbitrary… that we could have decided that murder, theft, and the like were GOOD, had “society” have chosen to do so? Can you imagine such a society? Can you find one… even one… anywhere in human history?

          Also, you claim that this is all “handed down” to us, and that’s why we agree. That’s a spurious argument at best. We were also taught our multiplication tables… but by your argument, because we were taught them, they’re purely a human construct. We could have decided that 2 x 2 = 5 had we chosen to do so as a society… right?

          No, just because we accept something at a societal level does not, in any fashion whatsoever, demonstrate that this thing is a human construct.

          You say “This is esp. true of the basic morals of right and wrong. Our morals COME NO PLACE FROM god.”

          Again, a very STRONG statement, with absolutely no evidence to back it up. This is a statement you believe wholeheartedly, but you believe it based upon FAITH, not upon reason or science.

          Prove… in a repeatable, peer-evaluated method, in a transparently-conducted experiment… that our morals “in no way come from God.” If you can’t… your statement is simply false. Or put more succinctly… it’s a LIE.

          “You think you don’t kill or rape a person because of god?? Do you know that people actually believe this and believe therefore atheists are rapists and evil people??”

          Another straw-man argument… the traditional “shifting the terrain” effort that you and the other Secular Humanist Faithful engage in regularly.

          Show me anyone who’s ever actually claimed that being an atheist automatically makes you a rapist. Please, provide references. Because I believe you are simply lying.

          I don’t rape or kill people because I am aware of a moral code, higher than myself, to which I compare my own actions, and those of those around me. If you actually READ what I wrote, and actually responded to that, instead of trying to shift to this make-believe straw-man argument, you’d be on stronger footing, even if you were wrong.

          I have stated, in the very post you’re responding to, my position… and it’s unrelated to the false argument you’ve just tried to make. I believe that there is A REAL MORALITY, and that we all are aware of it inherently. There was a time that this was commonly believed… they called it the “law of nature,” or “the law of human nature,” because it was believed that we all understood it inherently. And we do. This isn’t to say that there may not be the occasional person who is oblivious to this, just as there may occasionally be a person who is colorblind, or who has no sense of taste. But as a rule, we are all aware, inherently, of right and of wrong.

          There is no biochemical basis for this. It cannot be explained by the “herd instinct,” nor by self-preservation, nor of any other instinct. Morality commands us to DISREGARD our instincts to do what is right, as often as not.

          Morality commands us to disregard our sexual interest in a girl who we have no right to… and it is universally treated as immoral to take her against her will. There are those who will do so and will revel in the act of immorality, but there has never been a culture where this was accepted as a moral behavior.

          Morality commands us to put ourselves at risk. The men and women who rushed into the World Trade Towers to rescue people, who risked and in many cases gave their lives… they were disregarding their evolutionary, biological, and instinctive motivations. SOMETHING was above all that… and that something is morality.

          You say “Do you wonder why the vast majority of physicists and biologists are atheist?? Are they all immoral and chose this profession??”

          That statement is a bald-faced lie. Maybe you believe it, maybe you know it’s a lie. Either way, it is a lie, plain and simple.

          Here is the TRUE version of that statement – a significant percentage of college professors teaching those disciplines are atheists. But then again, the majority of elementary-ed professors at college are also atheists. Basically, better than half of all college professors are atheists.

          Why? Because teaching is a discipline with attracts people with “God complexes.” People who love being in positions of power over the powerless. And the central tenet of “Secular Humanism,” atheism, appeals to the same narcissistic attitude – being the “absolute power” with no higher authority over you.

          For the record, the “overwhelming majority” of people in the world practicing those professions, both currently and throughout history, have been people of faith. And the proof is best made by looking at all the truly revolutionary discoveries in the history of biology or physics, and the faith of each person who made them.

          You have Darwin… and Darwin was wrong about a great many details (he had no understanding of genetics, after all, so to claim otherwise would be delusion of the highest order!).

          And you have self-promoting professors like Dawkins and his pals… who’ve really produced nothing of any merit other than religious screeds sold at the local Barnes and Noble to self-indulgent narcissists like you.

          You say “Some people like to claim science and religion can go hand in hand but I disagree.” Well, that’s the first time you’ve actually admitted that you’re talking about your opinion, rather than scientific fact… it’s a baby-step in the right direction.

          But then you say “You can be religious and PRETEND science doesn’t contradict religion, but in reality it very much does.”

          No, it doesn’t. Not in the least. Science is a PROCESS, wherein an observation is made, a hypothesis is formulated, a certain degree of support leads that to become a theory, and only when there is no possibility of doubt can this then be considered a scientific fact. I use this, and have for decades now. You’re merely parroting what your high priest, Dawkins, and his fellow “Secular Humanist Bishops” have told you at your “religions devotionals.”

          You say “Let me ask you, do you think that evolution is just “another theory” and that the earth is less than 10,000 years old??”

          Nice trick there. Those are two points, not one. But by pairing them, you attempt to tie them together. That is dishonest in the extreme, but I don’t blame you. After all, you’re simply using the argument Dawkins gave you in his book, without question, just like a good acolyte would.

          Do I believe in evolution as a matter of science? Yes, I do. Science has demonstrated, quite clearly, that the process of evolution occurs regularly within a species. EVOLUTION WITHIN A SPECIES IS FACT.

          On the other hand, we have yet to find a single fragment of evidence of any kind to support the transformation of one genetically-unique species… especially any species which reproduces sexually…into another species. There have been studies done by molecular biologists and geneticists relating to the statistical probability of a genetically-new species evolving, being biologically viable, and having a significant enough population to survive.

          You DO know that an animal cannot reproduce with an animal of another, genetically-distinct species, right? And you also know that, as a well-proven SCIENTIFIC FACT, we know that populations of complex animals die off if there is not sufficient genetic variety in the breeding pool. This is not theory, it is proven fact.

          So… we’ve seen studies of the statistical likelihood of an entire new species coming into being, in a number sufficient to breed without dying off… based upon the most favorable options. Simply stated, in the recorded fossil record, we could have seen this as many as two times!

          Darwin didn’t understand genetic species… he looked only a physical similarities. But we know, today, that there are life forms which are physically dissimilar which are very close in genetic terms, and life forms which are physically similar but are genetically unrelated.

          You’re good at quoting Dawkins… but the 10,000 year thing isn’t held by anyone I know. I’ve never met anyone who believes this. What I DO know is that we can’t truly say with any accuracy exactly how old the Earth truly is. The best we can do is work from a base approximation relating to the decay rate of certain isotopes, and assume that there are no rounding errors, false assumptions in the model, or factors we haven’t taken into account. We simply do not know the actual age of the Earth. But we DO know that it’s quite a bit more than 10,000 years.

          Again, no one I know has ever made that claim, except for Dawkins and his pals.

          You spring to the defense of Darwin… which is almost CUTE. You respond much in the same way that a good Catholic responds if someone criticizes the “Blessed Virgin Mary.”

          He is treated by you, and by people who hold the same view as you, as a a religious figure. You think that by tossing out a few comments about RNA sequences, with no context, you can pretend that this somehow proves Darwin was “an amazing human being who somehow magically knew things as yet undemonstrated by science.”

          You’ve actually proven my point. He’s your “Holy Prophet” and you respond vigorously, albeit irrationally, when your “Holy One” is not worshipped sufficiently vigorously.

          Like I said… cute. Predictable, but cute.

          There is not a single bit of evidence that any genetically-distinct species ever came into being through evolutionary processes. Not one. And of course, we’ve never actually observed a single new species come into being… except on bad Sci-Fi channel movies.

          This does NOT demonstrate, in any way, that “evolution of new species” hasn’t happened, or that this isn’t the primary (or even sole) process through which this occurs. But at best, this is a THEORY. Yes, go ahead and get past your moment of apoplexy and try to wipe the drool from your chin… it is, BY DEFINITION, a theory, at best. If it weren’t for the tiny bit of RNA-sequence matching, which you mention, it wouldn’t even rise to that level… it would be nothing more than a hypothesis, a “what if” explanation of how someone THINKS it might have happened.

          Claiming it is fact is the clearest example you could have ever given that you’re not interested in SCIENCE, but instead interested in pretending (lying, frankly) that “science” is actually your belief-system’s “Holy Sacrament.”

          The RNA-sequence data is only an indication that there are commonalities. That’s like saying that two buildings with similar architectural features were designed by the same architect and built by the same construction team. No… it’s only an indication that the same mechanisms occur in both places.

          You say “The definition of a theory in science is not the same as in layman terms.”

          Fortunately, as someone who was doing this long before you were a gleam in your daddy’s eye, my callow young friend, and have used the scientific method to earn a living throughout my entire adult life, I feel quite comfortable that I know the definitions better than you do.

          I find it amusing, however, that you (again, showing your hand… unjustified arrogance and a serious “God complex”) somehow believe that you’re actually smarter than anyone who disagrees with you.

          • Sassan says:

            I am going to break down your illogical views point by point in as swift and concise responses rather than dragging it out too much so here it goes:

            “I do not believe that my finite mind and finite knowledge can possibly encompass the entire universe. I know that I cannot know all which is knowable. Yet, evidently, YOU DO BELIEVE THAT. After all, that’s central to your “Secular Humanist” faith – that you, personally, are the highest thing that exists in your universe. Right?”

            Actually, I have stated over and over than we who value science, scientific logic and reasoning, and living in rationality are very comfortable and actually cherish in not knowing everything. That is the beauty of science: investigations, research, breakthroughs, and advancement. It is the concept of religion and god that makes one self-satisfactorily satisfied with themselves and those who think like them. And HELL NO, I am not the “highest thing in my universe”. And what is up with you and this “secularist humanist” garble. I am atheist, a realist, and a fellow human being. That’s it. Here is a beautiful quote from Carl Sagan: “The atoms within our bodies were forged on the anvil of nucleo-synthesis within an exploding star aeons before the birth of the solar system. Our atoms are older than the mountains. We are literally made of star dust. Now these atoms, in turn, have coalesced into intelligent beings capable of understanding the universal laws governing that event”. I’ll finish with another quote at the end, but NO. I am not highly. We are in the big picture insignificant. Just look at the vast expanse of the universe! There are surely much more advanced civilizations than our civilization so no, I look at us lucky to be alive and that religious values and ideals threaten the future of this existence.

            “or you’re just so stubbornly ignorant that you’re incapable of paying attention to anything which doesn’t fit into your preconceived worldview.”

            Really?? I have a preconceived worldview?? Did my parents force “atheism” down my throat the way religious people force religion down their children? How about the psychological abuse undertaken by children through the fears of damnation and hellfire?? Religious belief constitute a preconceived worldview. Not science, rationality, and evidence.

            ” “Our morality comes from our existence as human beings.” A truly nonsensical statement if I’ve ever seen one. We exist, therefore we are moral? Really?”

            Sorry you don’t seem to understand but there are several ways evolution has contributed to our morality. First off, evolution and natural selection’s priorities are reproduction and survival through adaptation to the changing environment. Behaviors that were beneficial to our species contributed to our survival and aided the process of evolution. For example, you noted your example of “helping” someone who was drowning in a river. It is proven that in a situation like these, we are more likely to help others who are blood relatives of ours. The closer the blood relative, the more likely we are to help but def. we would help blood relatives with a much higher incidence than non-blood relatives. This is more seen through research and data of the “person stuck in a house that is on fire” rather than drowning but it is the same moral construct so comparison is valid. Why is this so?? In order for “us” to live on is for our genes to survive. In doing so, we would be willing to jump in the river or jump in the house of the fire if it is a very close kin of ours that is of young age as not only do we want our genes to survive, it is called kin altruism. See more info:

            To what I am studying, neuroscience not neurology. I am studying psychology with a focus on neuroscience. Big difference.

            Back to the brain, our higher brain cortices give us higher reasoning abilities (as you mentioned) which in turn are directly correlated and relate to the concepts aforementioned which is particularly true in actions that benefit the survival of our genes through natural selection and evolution. This survival and reproduction mechanism is exactly why our brains have grown bigger (which is demonstrated through fossil finds).

            To quickly jump back to your river scenario; why would we even consider helping a complete stranger?? It is called reciprocal altruism in that we hope that the stranger would help us if we were in their situation and in the hopes of being helped in the future. Not only does reciprocal altruism play a role, but something else plays a even greater role in helping complete strangers: EMPATHY. Empathy is imagining being in the shoes of someone else. If we can imagine and put ourselves in the shoes of the person suffering, we are more likely to help as we relate it to our selfish. This is a very vital and important concept which has been proven to be vital for purely altruistic behaviors.

            To morality: How about to those who want to live in an open relationship and have multiple sex partners? I am sure you are to damn them. How about homosexuals?? I am sure you think that is “immoral” even though it has been demonstrated that the majority of gays have been born that way due to differences in their genes (and the others may have been molested as children). I bring up the sexual morality issue because this is one of the more nonsensical morals that constitute religious belief of the three main monotheistic religions in which punishment can still be handed down today in the forms of stoning, whippings, and hangings. In the west, it is obviously not like that anymore because we have become civilized. If your spouse cheats on you, you can’t kill them; you can only divorce them. This issue brings forth the celestial dictator and his cronies themselves through their thought police forces in which their job is to suppress human nature and to suppress what human beings think and dream about!! Oh no, masturbation is bad too! It is a sin! Let’s circumcise all our kids, even females (in the case of some Muslim countries)!

            You claim: “Sex is a union between two people”; according to who? How about those who like to have partners? I go back to this only to one point; it has been demonstrated that women are more likely to forgive their spouse if their husband cheats on them for merely physical reasons rather than emotional reasons and the male is likely to forgive their spouse only if it is purely an emotional relationship but not physical. Why the discrepancy?? We need to look at evolutionary psychology. When we were coming into “human form” issues of paternity came up. For males, it was important to know that the women they impregnated and the child they were going to sort of look after was their genetic blood. The male wanted its own genes to survive and not another males. Of course no fraternity tests back then!! Therefore, sexual jealousy is an innate tendency which tends to run very strong in males. Therefore, it was vital that sexual escapades be strictly forbidden but an emotional relationship is not so bad as “time can pass”. The male in addition, could sleep around with multiple female partners impregnating multiple females at once. They did not have to be as selective in their mates. For women, they can get pregnant once in a 9-month period and going through labor is not only timely, but limits your reproductive capabilities. Therefore, a women needed a man who was emotionally there for them and provide them with food and protection for themselves and the child. Women had to invest much more time on the labor process and therefore emotionality was deemed a much more adaptive and evolutionary trait for the reproduction and survival of their children.

            “So, you think that this is all arbitrary… that we could have decided that murder, theft, and the like were GOOD, had “society” have chosen to do so? Can you imagine such a society? Can you find one… even one… anywhere in human history?”

            Some Islamic people of today believe that all non-Muslims should be killed (esp. non-believers or those who were born Muslim and converted) and is actually a very strong belief in Islamic countries. Therefore, the murders of non-believers are all good! Christianity has progressed and mostly become secularized and benign; but let’s not forget this is one of the root evils and problems of religious belief, the “us vs. them”, “we are with god and they are against god” type of mentality.

            Children due to adaptive principles and associate accept nearly what is told of them from birth to the ages of 5-7 years old. If you want to teach a child from the cradle to be a suicide bomber and a terrorist, there is a high likelihood they will be so. We are the religion we are (religious people) not because we chose so (it is very rare for religious conversions so of course there are exceptions) but generally because of what our parents taught us as “right” rather than our own independent thought processes. Again, it is your job to prove your belief in a superstitious and celestial dictator by providing evidence, not my job to believe in something that doesn’t exist. Remember, your claims of a higher deity have NO EVIDENCE of any sort and will never do. It is your responsibility in argument and belief to provide this REAL evidence. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary answers and evidence, but religious belief doesn’t provide even the most mundane of evidence.

            To close on morals, evolutionary psychology clearly demonstrate where our moral values and constraints come from and it has nothing to do with a higher power. As I mentioned, just read some books such as “The Moral Animal” or a series of other scientific books that I could recommend to you. Just ask. “The Moral Animal” is a great introduction to this question that you have which is a fascinating book.

            Actually, to the biochemical basis you are speaking out of your league. There are actual brain processes and certain neurotransmitters and brain structures that activate and deactivate during “moral” decisions. This is why having damage to the amygdala and the prefrontal cortex results in a lack of making “moral” judgments by making impulsive decisions and moves rather than being able to delay gratification. There is ABSOLUTELY biochemical evidence through fMRI research and PET scans that demonstrate this. We even have a “god helmet” which can activate the part of your brain that becomes active during religious prayer, belief, and so called “religious experiences” and “miracles”. Actually, the god helmet works on most atheists too! It is truly brain processes that occur. In fact, conversion symptoms are common aspects of religious or healing rituals. Seizures, paralysis, and trances are such common symptoms which are seen in fundamentalist religious groups and are often cited as evidence of “contact with god”.

            With rape (I am jumping back and forth to respond to you point by point); having rape as a societal construct actually affects our chances of survival by increasing this uncertainty of whether we have fathered the child of our spouse. This too is an adaptive and evolutionary component of our species. Nice try though!

            That something with 9/11 was something called EMPATHY as discussed. Putting ourselves in their shoes…and again, if a family member of ours were in that building the chances of actually going up that building while the planes had hit would have been much higher. Some of just have more empathy which develops with a combination of hereditary influences as well as our upbringing.

            To most physicists and biologists being atheist, you can call it a lie but it doesn’t make it so! You can deny reality but you can’t run away from it!! In fact, only 7% of the members of the American National Academy of Sciences believe in god. While the number drops to 3.3% in the U.K. Royal Society. Higher IQ’s increase the $ of those who tend not to believe in god. Bottom line is that the more educated in the science’s and math’s people are in society, the more atheism and logic. Again, in the U.K., 25% of people call themselves atheist. In other educated European countries, even more! More science leads to more disbelief. I don’t think you can really dispute this.

            LOL I love your theory on how “teaching attracts people with god complexes” LOLOLOL; “great” theory based on exactly as much evidence as in your primitive belief system: NONE, ZILCH

            And no (if you are alluding to) Einstein did not believe in god. He spoke of not believing in a personal god and of the “glimpsing into the mind of god” in the same way the great Stephen Hawkings discusses through hyperbole. Again, being religious does not make someone necessarily stupid, but the chances of not valuing science go up. In the times of scientific ignorance, there were great atheists from the great Persian scientist and poet which includes his achievements in astronomy and algebra, to the likes of Galileo, Thomas Edison, Freud, Socrates, and even Thomas Jefferson were all atheist. But regardless if them being atheist at the time (it was much more difficult with the lack of science and knowledge in how the universe works) the vast majority were definitely against organized religion and religious doctrine. This included the likes of Copernicus. Without the mindset of scientific reason and insight and the enlightenment period that took place in the west, we would be just as primitive as today’s radical Muslims.

            Darwin may not have known about genetics, but genetics and the discovery and advancement of our knowledge of DNA actually is the most direct and indisputable evidence of evolution! As I have mentioned in previous posts, the A-T-G-C DNA sequences are related in all mammals and directly enable us to see how closely related other animals are to us!

            “And you have self-promoting professors like Dawkins and his pals… who’ve really produced nothing of any merit other than religious screeds sold at the local Barnes and Noble to self-indulgent narcissists like you.”

            I can now say confidently you are either ignorant, blind, stupid or a combination of all three. Professor Dawkins has contributed nothing to biology and the advancement of biological theories, research, and knowledge?? WOW, you must be ignorant. He is one of the most pro-founding scientists who helped introduce the concept of the “selfish gene” theory which has been demonstrated as a principal behavioral rule of our species. He has a number of invaluable contributions that has advance the field as well as putting science and rationality to the forefront. Let me guess, Christopher Hitchens also is a dolt, and so is the neuroscientist Sam Hitchens?? But you are so smart with your religion?? lolol

            again. 99.9% of all species that have ever lived on this earth are now extinct. Evolution not only “in-species” but “out-species” are seen by the various related animals that we put as “distinct” animals from one another in the animal kingdom. Remember, evolution takes place over generations and generations and generations and generations…not in a single lifetime. An animal not being able to reproduce with another animal actually demonstrates how the smallest difference in genetic variation and mutations over time can influence the actual species of the animal. It does nothing to bolster your cynicism and false beliefs, but only demonstrates your further ignorance. This genetic variety is in fact the crux of evolution.

            In fact, my reasoning and arguments were not “scripted” from any book. It is based on my brain; do you have one that thinks for itself? According to a recent Gallup study ( nearly 40% of Americans claim that the earth was created within the last 10,000 years. I know Muslims are allowed to lie for the benefit of their religion but I didn’t think Christians were. Did you just sin?

            “What I DO know is that we can’t truly say with any accuracy exactly how old the Earth truly is. The best we can do is work from a base approximation relating to the decay rate of certain isotopes, and assume that there are no rounding errors, false assumptions in the model, or factors we haven’t taken into account. We simply do not know the actual age of the Earth. But we DO know that it’s quite a bit more than 10,000 years.”

            LOLOLOLOL….you are right, we can’t say “exact” as there is a margin of error like any good scientific research or poll. Saying this, it is not only “quite” a bit over 10,000 years old. The age of the earth is 4.54 billion years old (+-1%). Our science is that accurate. Again, nearly 4 of 10 Americans make the claim that the earth is less than 10,000 years old. Some may just say it to try to feel good about themselves and their lack of religious practice; but surely a HIGH number of Americans make this erroneous and asinine claim.

            You seem to talk A LOT about Dawkins; I sense you are a secret admirer of his?? Or obsessed about his great impact on society in advancing scientific knowledge and reason away from religious illiteracy?
            To observing evolution; we have actually seen the finches in the Galapagos island evolve (I am sure you will consider this species-species evolution) so I will give you a more profound example of fish evolving into multiple and separate species (

            To close, ignorant people believe in something to believe without evidence. I understand that most people fear not only their own mortality, but the mortality of their loved ones and this belief in a higher power gives this some “comfort” to cope and recover through these unfortunate circumstances of life and death. Unfortunately, I truly believe that belief based on zero evidence not only takes away this false sense of comfort that belief may give to some of us, but creates human divisions and ultimately has been the cause of oppression throughout the ages and will continue to do so until we are all courageous enough as individuals to ask ourselves one simple question: Why do we believe? Do we believe to just believe or do we have any evidence?? Until we do so, I fear that we will remain a primitive species rather than facing the world we live in with reality, rationality, and a sense of truly living in this world and being fellow human beings.

            • matt says:

              Your education is killing you! Sassan.. There is No faith in your mere education of Lies!

              • Sassan says:

                UH HUH…let’s all stay uneducated how about that? I have demonstrated that the more educated in the realms of science and math one is in society, naturally the more atheists (particularly with the conceptual understanding of physics). For example, people in U.K. are much more educated in science and math than Americans and they have a 25% atheist ratio. Science and education tends to enable people to look at the world in a logical and rational ways. I guess you can send us back to the dark ages and take away any education whatsoever for our youth. Damn education, rationality, logic, and common sense!!

                • Cary says:

                  Can you support that claim that British are “much more educated in math and science than Americans?”

                  Having spent time in both nations, I find that remarkably difficult to believe. It is true that there are lots of ignorant people in the world (ignorant meaning “lacking knowledge or education”) and that there are certainly plenty of those in the USA, but there are also lots of those in the UK, and in any other nation as well.

                  It is no coincidence that most of the major inventions and discoveries of the past century were made in America. Unfortunately, it’s true that in the past several decades, our educational system has begun to fail… and I’d argue that the clear corrolation between this and the degree of central-government control over education is, in fact, a direct causal relationship. Nevertheless, while this may bear heavily on the future of the American people, I have seen very similar trends in the UK as well.

                  Neither country… nor any other country for that matter… has a claim to have a “perfect educational system.”

                  One might attempt to argue that China’s system is “better.” Certainly they have a greater emphasis, per-capita, on math and science than we currently do in the USA. But having worked directly with Chinese scientists and engineers over the past several years (an unfortunate side effect of formerly-US-based businesses moving operations to China), I’ve noticed that the majority of these people have little, if any, creativity, almost no willingness to try “out of the box” or “risky” solutions to problems, and generally try to get by with the least amount of effort necessary to avoid getting fired. There are, of course, exceptions… and I can think of two applied scientists I’ve worked with in China who, right now, I’d gladly hire to be part of any team I was leading where they were able to participate. But by and large, while their education appears superior on paper, the end result is actually quite a bit inferior overall, as a nation.

                  FYI, I don’t believe that Matt was arguing against education. However, it’s entirely clear that this is exactly how you’ve taken his comment.

                  Matt, please correct me if I’m wrong, but here’s how I see what he was saying:

                  I believe Matt’s point was that your education has not merely given you facts and reasoning abilities, but has also imparted in you (in a way which is not truly the proper role of education at all) a philosophical belief system.

                  His comments about you having learned “no faith” and the education being filled with lies is not based upon the actual “readin’ writing, and ‘rithmetic” portion of your education, but instead upon the “and here is how you ought to view the world” portion.

                  I would not have said it quite how Matt said it. First, as I’ve been quite clear, I actually believe that you DO have “faith” in the things you believe… (faith being a belief in something which is not proven by facts). You do believe that there is no God… although there is no factual basis for that belief. My point has been that this is then, by definition, a matter of faith. So, while I understand Matt’s point, I would argue that just the opposite is true.

                  However, I know what he means… you don’t have faith in what he (and if I’m correct in identifying his point, many others) themselves have faith in. If I’m right, and Matt is a Christian, what he means (but abbreviated in shorthand) was “faith in God.” This, you certainly do lack, wouldn’t you agree?

                  As far as “lies” go… there are certainly claims made which are lies, and I believe you have accepted many of those. I’ve called them lies, so you know what I’m referring to. A lie is still a lie, even if the person who is promoting that lie believes it is true. However, in that case, the person is not a liar, but rather would be what I’d call a “dupe.”

                  You’ll notice that I’ve never called you a liar. But I have called claims you’ve made “lies.” This distinction has been something I’ve maintained, for exactly this reason. If someone believes a lie, sometimes it’s necessary to point it out in “impolitic” terms.

                  You believe that “God’s existence is a lie.” But I’m sure you don’t believe that everyone who believes in God and sincerely expresses that belief is a liar, do you? It’s the same thing…

                  I believe that much of what you hold to be true is based upon lies. But I am not convinced that you realize that, and that’s why I’ve taken the time to try to debate those points with you. If I’ve been successful, at some place in the back of your mind, you’ve filed away the arguments against those things you believe which I’ve stated as being lies. You may not accept that, today… but the seeds are there, and if something causes them to sprout later, my efforts will not have been wasted!

                  Matt’s comment was far more “to the point” than anything I’ve said. Sometimes, I meet people who think that “a few bullet points” is a better way of communicating than the (admitted rather verbose) style I personally prefer. But I disagree, and I continue to be verbose… not because I “like to hear myself talk” but rather because I like to avoid any requirement for the reader to have to INTERPRET what’s really meant.

                  You’ve clearly interpreted Matt’s comment in a way which is totally different from how I see it, and I believe in a way which is totally different from what he intended (again, Matt, please correct me if I’m mistaken). A more complete explanation of a point may take a bit longer to write, and to read for that matter, but it does have the benefit of reducing the likelihood of misinterpretation, doesn’t it?

        • Messenger says:

          Would love to exchange dialog with such an intelligent human. Please meail me at moc.evilnull@regnessemtsal to exchnage some christian dialog.

      • Sassan says:

        I would also like to mention that in making the claim that religion guides our morals of right and wrong (since some believe atheists can have no morals); it is morally wrong to tell people in Africa that condoms don’t protect you and “have little holes in them” because of a subjective and irrational so called “moral” stance. It is not “moral” to be against stem cell research when those are just cells and when the use of stem cells can provide scientific and medical advancement for humans that are living on this planet; not for so called “souls” in the cells

        • Cary says:


          Let’s define our terms here, just to be clear.

          “Religion” – a structured, disciplined behavior, typically with a significant element of ritual.

          “Faith” – a strong belief in something without proof or even necessarily strong evidence to back it up.

          “Morality” – a system of rules of behavior which take priority over both our instinctive and reasoned behaviors.

          For the record, while I’m certainly a man of FAITH, I am not especially “religious” (in the sense I’ve described the term, above) at all. I’ve known people who were very religious who had no faith… and I’ve known people who have great faith who aren’t the slightest bit religious. I don’t care about the pomp and circumstance… I don’t get irate if I visit a church where they play rock music instead of the “old standby hymns”… or if the candles aren’t all lit the right way and in the right sequence. That’s RELIGION, and it’s not something I personally feel any great attraction to.

          My attraction is to truth. I have reasoned much of this through. I have studied the great thinkers who have preceded me, including one who I am particular fond of, Lewis, who was an Oxford Don (aka “senior professor”) and an avowed Atheist who set out to disprove Christianity. The man was a genius, far surpassing my own intellect (which, with no false modesty here, is no mean feat). And his attempt to disprove Christianity resulted in his becoming one of the greatest proponents of the Christian faith in modern history. To anyone truly interested in this argument, I can only strongly recommend reviewing Lewis’ book, “Mere Christianity.”

          The greatest warriors in the service of Christ tend to be those who were his strongest opponents, who thought that they could conquer him, and who learned through doing so that He is REAL.

          I have not always been the believer I am today. Although raised in a Christian home, for many years I drifted away. The truth is simply something that I could only ignore, only reject, for my own selfish purposes, for so long.

          You are attempting to state that I’m claiming that “Morality comes from Religion.” I have not said that. For that matter, I have not said that “Morality comes from faith.”

          I know

          I have not stated that “religion guides our morals of right and wrong.” I’ve said exactly the opposite, in fact.

          I have stated that EVERYONE has been given the ability to comprehend the concept of morality. Even those who have never so much as heard of Jesus. I even went so far as to explain this in the terms it was once described, as “the law of nature” or the “law of human nature” since it was believed (correctly, as I’d argue) that we all know it by nature.

          I gave examples of this. I would not be in the least surprised if some of the firefighters and police who went back into the World Trade Center on September 11th may have been atheists.

          Sassan, please, tell me who has told people in Africa the things you’ve just tossed out. I agree with you that this would be morally wrong. If someone did this, supposedly in the name of Christ, then they are wrong… plain and simple. And as a Christian, I would consider that act on their part to be a “sin.”

          Of course, everyone sins… you, me, them, everyone. Nobody is “good enough” on their own steam to earn God’s favor. That’s where Christianity deviates most strongly from all other faiths. We acknowledge that we’re screw-ups… every last one of us… and that we cannot ever be “good enough.” We are poor, and cannot possibly even begin to pay off the debts we owe.

          But at the core of the Christian faith is the idea that someone who has the ability to pay has agreed to pay on our behalf. All we have to do is let Him pay our debts, and do our level best (imperfect as that may be) to reduce the number of mistakes we make!

          So… did someone actually say that? I’d appreciate more information.

          As for being against “stem cell research,” you need to be very clear… there are two totally separate disciplines which are described by that term, and they are (possibly intentionally?) allowed to be confused.

          There is “adult stem cell” research and there is “fetal stem cell research.”

          Adult stem cell research focuses on taking bone marrow, which is rich in adult stem cells, from the person who is being treated, and using those cells to help regenerate damaged tissue or heal severe injuries or the like. This has proven to be very successful. Part of this is because the cells are GENETICALLY IDENTICAL to the body in which they are being used. They’re YOUR CELLS… simply being repurposed to another function.

          By contrast, to date we have seen not a single positive result from any form of fetal stem cell research. In large part, this is due to the fact that the fetal stem cells are genetically dissimilar to the body they are being applied to, and thus the immune system of the recipient tends to reject those cells, and any tissues created from those cells. This is similar to the tendency to reject transplanted organs, but while heavy doses of immunosuppressant drugs have proven to permit the body to adjust to foreign tissues from transplants, over time, there have been no cases to date of any fetal stem cells surviving in a new host body even with the dramatic use of immunosuppressive treatments.

          So, from a purely SCIENTIFIC standpoint, there is very little “moral positive” to be found from fetal stem cell research at this point.

          On the other hand, there is a great deal of “moral negative” to be found from this particular branch of research. These cells are not “just cells,” they are part of a human body which has died. This is not a part of the mother’s body, it is a genetically-distinct life form. It is more like a parasite than anything else, honestly.

          Human beings die every day, and we have no problem with research on dead bodies. Especially for Christians and those with beliefs similar to us, this is no problem at all… we believe that we are souls, and when we die, it’s more like tossing off an old, worn out garment than it is like anything else. I am not this body… and I will still be myself long after this body is gone. As will you be, long after your own body is gone.

          So, I have no problem with medical work using the body of any human, no matter how far along in their life, if that work will help others who are still alive.

          But I have a huge issue with the concept of murdering humans for medical purposes, or simply because that human being’s existence somehow poses and inconvenience to another person.

          This is at the core of a movement once referred to as Eugenics. This was a favorite of the Nazis, of course, but was also very popular in the rest of the “modern, enlightened world” as well. One of the chief proponents of Eugenics was a woman named Margaret Sanger. She founded an organization called Planned Parenthood, the original stated purpose of which was to support her Eugenics philosophy…

          She believed that certain races were inferior, and that thus they needed to be discouraged from reproduction. (She was a horrible racist, no surprise there!)

          You can read a lot more about this movement with a simple Google search, if you wish, but here’s a decent starting point:

          To sum it up, though… “Eugenics is the self-direction of human evolution”

          Yes, that’s yet another example of the Secular Humanist philosophy, where the “enlighted few” get to play God over the rest of us.

          I consider Eugenics to be immoral. Do you, Sassan?

          • Sassan says:

            I am done responding to your nonsense. As I have stated, being against and banning stem cell research (of course fetal stem cell research) is wrong, abhorrent, and truly reprehensible. Fetal stem cells are the stem cells scientists need (quantity and quality) and the only reason to be against the opportunities that these stem cells offer through potential scientific and medical advancements are for your twisted view that these cells “have souls”. Again, when religion comes into the picture and violates the freedom for ACTUAL PEOPLE to advance in health and life.

            • Cary says:

              It is not nonsense, and once again you choose a “straw man” to argue against. Show me, please, where I said that I am in favor of BANNING ANYTHING.

              For that matter, show me who else has.

              There is a huge difference between no longer forcing unwilling taxpayers to pay for a procedure which they disapprove of, and “banning” the procedure, first off. I am not aware of ANYONE in any position of authority in the USA ever suggesting banning anything of the sort. Only in withdrawing public funding of it.

              Furthermore, MY OWN POINT (unambiguously stated) was that I am not opposed to performing medical experimentation on deceased human bodies. I have no problem with medical school cadavers. I have no problem with the use of using corneas from the recently deceased to return eyesight to the blind, or to provide a liver for someone dying of liver disease, or the like.

              What I oppose is the INTENTIONAL MURDER of any human being, regardless of the state of their life, either for convenience’s sake, or for the purpose of medical research.

              So, once again you either fail to comprehend, or you choose to intentionally deceive people who may not have read the original statement.

              You like to use terms like “twisted” and so forth. I’d say that those who support Eugenics are those who have a “twisted view,” wouldn’t you?

          • Sassan says:

            The Pope – the Pontiff told people in Africa that condoms are “actually dangerous” due to the fact they “they have tiny holes in them” and do not protect against HIV

            • Cary says:

              It is true that Lambskin condoms have pores which can allow viruses to pass through. Latex condoms, however, do not (unless they have manufacturing defects).

              • Sassan says:

                The whole point was to try to scare the poor people in Africa who were Catholic and uneducated “to not have premarital sex” but in doing so he lied and increased the chances of HIV which are ACTUAL HUMAN DEATHS. How “moral”

                • Cary says:

                  Well, I’m not a Catholic, and there are elements of Catholicism that I’m not personally in agreement with. I’m certainly not personally in favor of the concept of a supposedly “infallible church leader,” and I find that many of the practices of Catholicism make me uneasy, as they seem to border on idolatry.

                  That said, I’m sure that Catholics are Christian… and I know that no one group can claim to have “the one direct line to God.” We all… every last one of us… make mistakes. We all share a common grounding in what Lewis, referred to as Mere Christianity. If Catholics may be wrong on one point, I’m sure that Baptists are wrong on another (no music in Church?), and so forth. But it’s at our center, where we are furthest from “religion” and closest to “faith” that we find our greatest common ground.

                  I do not believe that the Pope is “infallible” any more than I believe that Mohammed was “infallible” or that a Mullah is “infallible.” Or, for that matter, that you or I are “infallible.”

                  But I do know that you just tried to misrepresent a CLEARLY TRUE STATEMENT. Lambskin condoms do not protect from viral STDs, because they have pores. And lambskin condoms are most prevalent in less-developed nations, while synthetic-polymer condoms are more common in developed nations.

                  I don’t share the Catholic predisposition against birth control… but I do believe that ABORTION is not “birth control.” I believe that abortion is the willful termination of a human life.

                  This isn’t necessarily always WRONG, however. For instance, I share Ronald Reagan’s attitude… Christian morality allows one to act in self-defense, and if the life of the mother is endangered and at real risk, it is literally self-defense that we’re talking about. In such instances, abortion cannot be treated as MURDER, though it should be treated as what it is… ending a human life.

                  Let’s not obfuscate the issue by using terms like “pro-Choice”… or by calling the opposing viewpoint “pro-Life” for that matter. We’re talking about abortion, and whether you support it or oppose it. Some people believe that abortion is wrong. Others believe that it is not. Let’s at least be honest about what we’re discussing, shall we?

                  I find it fascinating that there are so many people who are 100% pro-abortion, and yet 100% anti-death-penalty. Similarly, I find it fascinating to see people who are adamantly pro-death-penalty and yet absolutely anti-abortion.

                  Both are very similar… they are the willful termination of a human life. Of course, the unborn child is guilty of no crime, while the convicted criminal is (or rather, SHOULD BE) known to be guilty of some heinous criminal act, so this make abortion somewhat less acceptable, doesn’t it?

                  But both are about ending a human life, because it’s been decided that doing so is in some way in the best interests of society as a whole. Neither should ever be done lightly, or merely for convenience… and neither should be done just to obtain a body for medical research.

                  It should be a hard decision, and should be acknowledge as what it is… taking a human life. Not only erasing what this life is, but everything that this life ever has been or ever could be. But there are certainly times when this can be justified… either for “death penalty” cases or “abortion” cases.

                  So, I disagree with the hard line of the Catholic church on this matter… but I also dispute the clear misrepresentation you’ve made of the Pope’s statement.

                  • Sassan says:

                    I would agree with you that abortion past the first trimester is murder and should never happen unless the life of the mother or baby is in jeopardy. Otherwise, abortion in the first trimester (particularly the first two months) should always be the mother’s right to decide to have a baby or not. Some Christians believe it is a “baby at conception” which is nonsense therefore again trying to impose ones subjective morality upon others.

                    I apologize for calling you stupid earlier but, your arguments often times don’t fall on logic. It was wrong to call you that and I was just tired of reading illogical and irrational arguments. Again, I apologize for the personal name calling.

                    • Cary says:

                      Thank you for saying that, Sassan.

                      For the record, I do not believe you to be stupid. If I did, I would not waste time with you.

                      Instead, I recognize that you are intelligent. But I believe you to be mistaken, about a number of things. My arguments have been attempts to illustrate, both to others, but just as importantly to you, yourself, what these flaws (as I see them) are.

                      Just to make things perfectly clear… I have not said any of the harsh things I’ve said to you out of hatred, or anger. My intention is to make you think, and to see some of the things you believe so strongly in a different light.

                      I know I’m not going to “convince you” at this point. But I can tell that you’re intelligent enough to grasp the arguments I’ve made. Even if you choose to view those of us who disagree with you as being either “idiots” or as “the enemy,” I know that you will remember the arguments, and the points supporting those arguments.

                      If my belief is true (and I’m certain it is, though I have no “hard data” I can share with you to prove that to you right now), then the time will come when you will start to see things happening that will fit with what you’ve been told. And since you’re not an idiot (the worst I’ve called you so far has been “zealot,” after all… which of course means:

                      “a. One who is zealous, especially excessively so.
                      b. A fanatically committed person.”

                      Neither of which is inherently insulting, but rather describe a person whose worldview is so “set” that they’re closed to considering other perspectives and who see anyone who disagrees with them as needing to be “defeated” as an “enemy.”

                      I don’t see you as my enemy, Sassan. I see you as a person who thinks he’s doing good… and who wants to do good. You think you’re fighting against lies. That’s not bad. I just think you’ve made some errors in what you’ve chosen to accept, and what you’ve chosen to reject.

                      I can see you… a young man who wants to to good things… and who has the ability (if you can get beyond your “learned predispositions”) to process what’s going to happen quite effectively… as one of those who will follow on when I, and those like me, have gone. You’re smart enough to grasp this… and you’ve heard what I’ve had to say, even if (for now) you reject it. If things start to come together, I hope that you (and anyone else who’s been following these exchanges) will start to recognize that there’s truth to the side you’ve previously so strongly rejected.

                      That’s why I’ve argued with you. Not to “defeat” you but to give you a chance to become the man who you have the potential to be, in what I truly believe is going to be a reality-reshaping period of history for the next 8 years or so.

                      It’s OK if you don’t agree with my perspectives right now (though I’d be pleased if you did). Just remember… and if you find yourself reconsidering in the future (as I believe most everyone will, and sooner rather than later) I hope that my words may have helped you to reach the right conclusion when that day comes.

                      God gave us brains… he expects us to use them. I only want you to be a bit more open-minded, for now… as I’ve said, I can respect an agnostic a lot more easily than I can respect a “dedicated atheist,” because the agnostic is the only one who believes what he (or she) believes purely based upon scientific merit with no emphasis on “faith” (believe unsupported by evidence) whatsoever.

    • missy says:

      so true

  81. Sassan says:

    Typo in my last post: “with or without” not “with our without” religion

  82. John says:

    the Mahdi is one of the most misused beliefs out there. I too had questions about this, did you know muslims give great importance to Jesus Christ, and the virgin Mary? So much so that there is a whole chapter in the Quran called Mary. If you want to know about some culture or religion, you go and read about it from their books not from the books of their enemies. Why would you learn about Judaism from Nazis?

  83. girlfulfilled says:

    for all who erroneously believe that the Jews are going to face annhilation…
    The rapture is for the Christians. yes the Jews will be left on earth to endure the tribulation, but will be sealed and protected by God, himself, until the appointed time at which He lifts the scales from their eyes and they see and know that Jesus IS their messiah… the second coming! God has always had a seperate covenant with the Jews than with the Gentiles/Christians. They are and will always be His chosen people!!!

  84. Sassan says:

    lololol @ all the religious fundamentalists

  85. Ltdumbear says:

    The so called ‘Warriors of Islam’ are weakened and disorganised by thier own selfish, self-centered passions, wants and needs. They will lose, because they fight without HONOR. They hide and conspire in the shadows, rather than congregate openly, and elect a true LEADER to speak for them, on the world-stage. Common sense and LOGIC would suggest that anyone (or any ‘thing’) that would rise from a ‘well’ should be avoided at all costs…especially by the very people ‘it’ hopes to lead forward in victory, over it’s supposed ‘oppressors’. I’m not sure how the people of Israel were ‘oppressing’ ANY body…they simply chose a spot on the map, which their centuries-old faith-bound belief-system suggested to them, was thier HOME-land. They took what was rightly THIERS. To the victor belongs the spoils. A conquered people need to be reminded (from time to time) that they were CONQUERED. Get over it…move on…ask your ‘cousins’ in Saudi Arabia to ‘build’ you a city in the desert somewhere else…it’s not like they can’t AFFORD it, with the money WE PAY THEM for oil.

  86. girlfulfilled says:

    Someday, sooner rather than later, all of those who have scoffed at the things of faith WILL be shown the error of their ways.

    Unfortunately, for most, it wll take the horror and suffering of the tribulation to break the hardness off their stubborn hearts before they will be willing to “see” the Truth and accept Him into their hearts.

    More will give their souls to Jesus Christ during the tribulation than have since the beginning of time!

    The video above is truly prophetic… as is Revelation, Daniel, Isaiah, and other prophetic books of the bible… they are each telling two sides of the same story. The Islamic Messiah, IS the Christian’s Anti-christ… SAME PERSON.

    SOON, all will see that what we said was coming was true… how sad will it be for them in that moment when they finally “get it” and know, it was RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEM the whole time, and they MISSED IT… they REJECTED it!!

    I mourn for the sorrow of their hearts, in that moment!!! BUT, all will not be lost!!! The redeeming blood of Jesus Christ is there for any and all who call upon Him to save them!!!

    Please don’t be offended by people, like me, who would try to proselytize and alert unbelievers to whats coming!!! Afterall, how much would we have to hate a fellow human being to see a train coming right for them and not try to push them out of the way???!!!

    Likewise, all you of the faith… don’t forget that you were commissioned to speak the Truth in LOVE!!! If someone chooses not to believe, don’t belittle them… what good will that do??? It only emboldens their disdain for “hypocrits” who say one thing and live out another.

    May God bless us all… we NEED it!

  87. Rex Kramer says:

    Lots of athiest trolls I see…

    For those who smear Christianty or other faiths, the world certainly wouldn’t be better under athiest rule:

    1. Lenin = Death toll 6-8 Million
    2. Stalin = Death toll 20 Million
    3. Mao = Death toll 29 Million

    As for the above numbers, that’s not the total number of death under athiesm, that’s just from the “popular” one’s in history…

    Why don’t you start smelling what your shoveling before attacking the “nut case fairy tale religons” as you call it!

    Regardless of what you say, you also have a religous belief, be it a belief in science, belief in evolution, or a belief in nothing, it is still a belief and in my mind that is much more of a science fiction fairy tale than anything else…

    While I am a bigoted Christian, I do not push my faith on others as you love to do with your B.S. theories.

    If you believe the big bang theory can produce all the perfectly functioning complex living beings we have today and all the plants, trees, aquatic life, from some explosion in space? Now that is a fairy tale :-)

    I will challenge you to this:

    Take as much sand, gold, silver, and steel you need, and in any controlled explosion you like, make me a prefectly functioning watch!!! And that’s not even a living being…

    How about this, Seek Jesus Christ the Messiah for one month as a scientific experiment? You might be suprised!!!

    • Sassan says:

      To Rex, anything resembling logic, evidence, and rationality rather than nonsensical superstitious beliefs makes us “trolls”?? To your arguments and specific points you mentioned, those rulers were truly evil and genocidal maniacs, but do you recall the quote I posted by the great American physicist Steven Weinberg? “With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion”. Those brutal dictators did not kill and commit genocide “because of the direction of atheism” and did not use “atheism” to justify their genocide. They did so because of their sickness and evil ideologies of totalitarian and fascism. The difference with religion is that normally good people can become evil and commit acts of genocide (which can be seen by opening any history textbook) which clearly demonstrates how religion can make a perfectly otherwise peaceful person operates. My entire family (dad’s and mom’s side is anti-Islamic Republic) except one of my aunts whom is a nut. Why is she fanatical?? Because of her extreme religious beliefs.

      Next you make a comment which truly exemplifies your ignorance and naivety. You claim that “I also have a religious belief but it is a belief in science, evolution, or a belief in nothing”….I’m sorry, but open the your dictionary and look up the definition of theory (as in science it differs from layman terms): the analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another; to call scientific theories such as “evolution” as b.s. only shows your ignorance. It is a FACT which has been demonstrated not only through fossil finds which show our relations to our ancient ancestors but is further demonstrated as fact inside of laboratories as we can compare our the similarity of our DNA sequence (based on the four-letter DNA sequence A-T-G-C) with other animals and see that we are nearly 99% identical DNA with Chimpanzees and Bonobos. You don’t “push” your faith upon others and I do?? What is it others are doing by posting nonsensical scriptures all over this board, is that not “voicing an opinion”. Is not “imposing” your faith upon others is what I assume wanting to teach unscientific claims of creationism in public schools or being most probably against stem cell research even though stem cell research can save actual human lives and advance scientific and medical breakthroughs??

      We atheists are completely comfortable in not knowing everything but religious people are not. When our ancient ancestors looked up to the sky and saw comets and asteroids they assumed that it was “heaven sent”. Just a few hundred years ago (when the Christians were fundamentalist like today’s Muslims) virgins were burned at the stake during solar eclipses. Why?? Because god was “angry” at us and had allowed the devil to occupy sky. Today, Muslim’s still have extra prayers during solar and lunar eclipses. Is it really a fairy tale by knowing that something called the big bang took place nearly 14 billion years ago (scientists are now investigating exactly what this big bang was through the massive Hadron Collider in Switzerland and France) but whether it was a creation of the ENTIRE universe or a birth of our portion of the universe is what physicists are investigating and studying. We who value science, understand that it is OK and actually cherished not do know something rather than believing in a celestial dictator who becomes the “thought police” in the case of Islam and is out to make sure we don’t have “bad thoughts and beliefs”. Please don’t tell me you actually think the earth is less than 10,000 years old?? It is much more logical to understand something called the big bang happened nearly 14 billion years ago than believe in a god. We know the big bang happened due to the radiation that we can see which it has left behind. Then comes the question of your belief in a celestial dictator or a creator, where does god come from? Does god have a god, and what about god’s god and god’s god’s god and so on…what is more rational and logical??

      • Cary says:

        No, Sassan, a “troll” is someone who enters a discussion with the intention, not of discussing, but of belittling, insulting, degrading, and generally doing everything possible to stir up a hostile emotional reaction in those who you are “trolling.”

        I’m curious… what is the purpose for your posts in this thread? It seems that you are either trolling, or that you are attempting to proselytize for your own belief system. However, if you are attempting to proselytize, you aren’t doing a very good job of it, since I doubt very much that you have had any real influence on anyone except to annoy them.

        I think you’re trying to proselytize. But the real effect of your posts seems to be more in line with that of a troll. I can see why it would seem that way to Rex.

        Those “brutal dictators” didn’t do what they did because “Atheism commanded them to.” But no one has ever done evil because “Christianity commanded them to,” either. I rebutted your quote earlier, but you failed to respond to the points I actually made, instead resorting to juvenile name-calling and a weak attempt to “shift your footing” and move the argument onto other topic.

        Again… there are no “good men” or “bad men” in the sense that the quote you give states. Rather, all men are “good” (insofar as we were created by God with the intention of our being good, and we all know the moral law which God has imprinted on our souls) but we are also all “bad” (because not a single one of us has ever actually lived up to the requirements of that moral law we’ve been given).

        Those who have done evil have done so not because of their religion, but because they choose to do evil. Sometimes, they may choose to justify what they want to do through a misapplication of religion (there were certainly terrible, cruel tyrants who claimed to be Christians, but who I’d argue were not), or they may do it because their religions supports their desire (as is the case with what I refer to as “whole-Koran Islam”).

        But the evil that they do is not because of a faith. It’s because they want choose to do evil. Most who will USE religion to do evil don’t even believe… they just use it to control or distract those who they think are best controlled or distracted that way.

        I gave you the example of Hitler’s initiation of “state control” over the churches in Germany. Hitler HATED Christianity… but he saw it as a tool he could use, so he initiated a program by which he’d tell the churches what they could teach, gave them new lyrics for hymns, and so forth. Any church which refused to follow his instructions was shut down, and the clerics were arrested for sedition.

        Hitler wasn’t a believer in the Christian faith, but he did try to corrupt it and co-opt it to further his own goals.

        The same happened in Russia under Stalin, one of history’s most prolific mass-murderers. He allowed only one church to exist, the “Russian Orthodox” church, and only when it did as he commanded it to do. He didn’t believe, but he was willing to use it to help control his subjects.

        Stalin was an atheist. His atheism didn’t cause him to be evil. Rather, his evil caused him to be atheist… that is, he wanted to believe that he was the highest authority, and answerable to no one. That allowed him to justify his actions, and that required him to reject the idea of a God which might be higher in the pecking order than he was.

        Atheism wasn’t the cause, it was just a one of the symptoms. The cause was egotism and a personal “God complex.” And that allowed the evil within him to come out, unfettered by any “higher moral authority.”

        You’re really fond of referring to people (some of whom know a LOT MORE THAN YOU DO) by silly, snide, arrogant insults. You call Rex, me, and anyone else who won’t kiss your callow little butt “ignorant” or “naive” or so forth. Do you have any idea how pathetic that is?

        You know nothing about the people who you address. Yet you are so convinced of your own “higher state” that you don’t even hesitate to think about the possibility that you might be anything less than “PERFECTLY AND COMPLETELY CORRECT ABOUT EVERYTHING.” Do you know Rex? Do you know Me? We can judge you, based upon what you’ve expressed, of course, and you can judge us based upon what we’ve expressed… but I’m still laughing at you, a mere student, playing at lecturing ME about “the scientific method” (which I was putting to full use before you were even conceived).

        Your arrogance is unearned, unjustified, and frankly just unbearably obnoxious. You don’t come across as intelligent, you come across as a spoiled little brat.

        You claim that you’re “comfortable not knowing everything.” That’s not what an Atheist believes, though, is it? An AGNOSTIC is someone who is comfortable not knowing everything.

        An ATHEIST is someone who pretends to know something that they cannot possibly know, because it gives them emotional comfort to believe that there is no possibility of someone or something to whom they need to answer. An Atheist is someone who wants to, in effect, BE GOD.

        Find me a humble atheist. Just one. Please.

        Of course, all of the prior garbage you posted is rendered almost innocuous from your final paragraph… which is truly amazing.

        Can you please provide references to where Christians “burned virgins at the stake” during solar eclipses? C’mon, let’s see your sources. You may find evidence of Wiccans doing that… or of tribes in South America… but your post is intended to infer that this was done by Christians. So… I challenge you… SUPPORT YOUR CLAIM. Or, if you can’t support it, admit that it was a lie.

        You talk about “the big bang,” and the date at which it occurred, as if this is something you know through observation and experimentation. You don’t. This is not a scientific fact. It isn’t even a theory, insofar as it hasn’t been supported with anything except for a few red-blue-shift observations which only tell us that stellar bodies are moving towards us or away from us. We know that stellar bodies are moving, but we don’t know with any degree of certainty how far those bodies are from us, nor of any other mechanisms we may not fully understand about the nature of space/time. All we have are a few observations and a HYPOTHESIS about why this MIGHT be the case.

        The labs at Fermi, or the Hadron collider, give us some tiny fragments of information about what happens when certain particles collide. We are limited, in the extreme, to how much actual information we can glean from these processes.

        Don’t misunderstand me… these labs are engaged in real, hard science. And they’re doing TREMENDOUS work (having spent some time at Fermi myself, I can attest to that). But it’s an error of UNIMAGINABLE PROPORTIONS to pretend that we “know all that is knowable” based upon seeing a few observable effects which happen when two particles happen to collide.

        We’re like children banging two pots together. We’re learning, but we’re not even at the Kindergarten level as far as our understanding of the universe is concerned. Pretending otherwise is fatuous arrogance, nothing more.

        We’ve barely even left the surface of our planet. The only way we have to measure interstellar distances is by parallax measurements, and we’re limited in resolution by the diameter of our planetary orbit. We cannot tell how far another galaxy is from us… the math simply isn’t possible. The tolerances in our measurements prevent that from being an option. Even the tiniest vibration, even in something like the Hubble which was primarily subjected to vibration due only to thermal effects, is enough to render any parallax measurements beyond our immediate stellar neighborhood impractical.

        You talk about how “scientist are studying the creation of the universe” as though they’re actually able to know, from tossing to subatomic particles together, what happened when the universe was created. And that they, with nothing but a lump of neurons in a fatty-tissue suspension, forming an organic computer, not even a mote of dust when compared to the complexity of the universe… are somehow able to grasp that?

        I think “fatuous arrogance” again is the best description of that attitude. We can’t even comprehend our own minds. We don’t understand how thought happens. The one thing we DO have first-hand knowledge of, beyond anything else, still remains beyond our ability to grasp.

        But by tossing a few particles together, you actually believe that “we can understand the entire Universe?” REALLY?

        “We who value science?” I am one who values it. You, by contrast, are one who has misrepresented it as something that it is not. To you, it is the core of your faith-system. To me, it is a thought process by which we attempt to better understand the universe in which we live. It is a TOOL. And a very valuable tool it is.

        God isn’t opposed to science. And science isn’t opposed to God. Those of you who pretend that Science somehow does that don’t respect what science is, or what it’s role as a TOOL is.

        Try applying the scientific method to prove God, or to prove Atheism, and neither will succeed. A belief, or a disbelief, in God can only be due to personal experience, or due to faith. And since “personal experience” is inherently prohibited. You cannot experience the “non-existence of God” but it is, at least theoretically, possible to experience the existence of God… and if Christians are right, sooner or later you WILL experience that. Whether this proves to be the supreme comfort, or the supreme terror, to you will be based upon whether you continue to make yourself His enemy.

        A “quiet, respectful atheist” is a different matter altogether than a “rabidly proselytizing atheist.” You are here with the sole purpose to FIGHT AGAINST GOD. You believe that “god” isn’t real… so you believe you’re fighting against a false belief. This is the only hope, as far as I’m concerned, for you… because I strongly suspect that (if you allow yourself to at least remember the arguments being made now) you’ll find yourself forced to accept that these arguments are being proven true… and that this will happen, sooner rather than later.

        If I’m wrong… there’s no harm done, is there? If you accept that there MIGHT be a God… but you don’t want to bother with this idea… you’re not harmed in any way, are you? But if I’m right, and you’re wrong… are you SURE you want to go around picking fights with Him?

        • Sassan says:

          As an Iranian who has seen what religion has done to ruin a once great nation of Iran; I want more westerners to be aware of the evils that are at the fundamental root of religion. Not everyone has to or is mentally prepared to face reality in becoming atheist, that is fine…but we need to throw away ancient primitive text as a way to live our live and to look at the world. Otherwise, we will be not much better than the Mullahs other than observing a different religious text which at its root is one with the quran. After all, the quran is a plagiarism of the bible.

        • Sassan says:

          BTW, you can’t lie about history. Hitler was no atheist and was actually Roman Catholic. He invoked the use of god regularly to justify his sick and twisted Nazi ideology. He wasn’t a religious fanatic, but in no way was he an atheist.

          And again, times and times again religious has been the key root and justification of war, genocide, terrorism, violence, etc etc etc. This is not even disputed. On the other hand, atheism never was. Those atheist tyrants killed because of their own kind of religion: communism and fascism. Atheism was never a motivating factor. If you fail to comprehend this, I can’t do anything for you. You just might not have the brain faculties to understand this very basic notion.

          • Cary says:

            Hitler was never a Catholic. His parents died when he was young, and he was raised by his Jewish inlaws (which is where his hatred of Judaism and Jews found its roots).

            Hitler HATED Christianity. You can find his commentary all throughout his own writings on the topic. He was actually very much into the entire Aryan concept, which was a “New Age” sort of an idea.

            The basic concept being that Atlantis had been this higher civilization, and that when it was destroyed, the survivors scattered throughout the globe, leaving us with a number of tribes of “higher, more evolved humans” (the Aryan race) living among the “savages.”

            The term Aryan actually is that of a race of blond-haired, blue-eyed people who lived in northern India at one point. Also among these groups were was counted the civilization of Thule, which is the original foundation of the Norse gods.

            Hitler and his fellow ideologues believed that the various artifacts which formed the foundation of most of the religions of the world were actually Atlantean/Aryan technological artifacts. They believed that Christ used some of these to perform his miracles. They believed the same for virtually every religion out there.

            So, while movies like “Raiders of the Lost Ark” paint this in fanciful, fictional terms, the basic concept (of the Nazis seeking out various artifacts) is actually historically accurate.

            Hitler was NOT a Christian. He believed Christianity was a fraud, based upon the misapplication of advanced (Atlantean) technology.

            His own writings make it very clear. You can pretend he was a Catholic… but that’s like saying that because Barack Obama attended a Muslim school while living in Indonesia, that automatically makes him a Muslim. Or, it’s like saying that because you were raised in Iran, you’re automatically a devote Muslim.

            Hitler HATED Christianity. His own writings make this utterly unambiguous.

            Nobody here ever claimed Hitler was an atheist. He was a “New Age” guy long before “New Age” was a term we used.

            • Sassan says:

              “Hitler’s involvement with the Church:

              a) Hitler was baptized as Roman Catholic during infancy in Austria.

              b) As Hitler approached boyhood he attended a monastery school. (On his way to school young Adolf daily observed a stone arch which was carved with the monastery’s coat of arms bearing a swastika.)

              c) Hitler was a communicant and an altar boy in the Catholic Church.

              d) As a young man he was confirmed as a “soldier of Christ.” His most ardent goal at the time was to become a priest. Hitler writes of his love for the church and clergy: “I had excellent opportunity to intoxicate myself with the solemn splendor of the brilliant church festivals. As was only natural, the abbot seemed to me, as the village priest had once seemed to my father, the highest and most desirable ideal.” -Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

              e) Hitler was NEVER excommunicated nor condemned by his church. Matter of fact the Church felt he was JUST and “avenging for God” in attacking the Jews for they deemed the Semites the killers of Jesus.

              f) Hitler, Franco and Mussolini were given VETO power over whom the pope could appoint as a bishop in Germany, Spain and Italy. In turn they surtaxed the Catholics and gave the money to the Vatican. Hitler wrote a speech in which he talks about this alliance, this is an excerpt: “The fact that the Vatican is concluding a treaty with the new Germany means the acknowledgement of the National Socialist state by the Catholic Church. This treaty shows the whole world clearly and unequivocally that the assertion that National Socialism [Nazism] is hostile to religion is a lie.” Adolf Hitler, 22 July 1933, writing to the Nazi Party

              g) Hitler worked CLOSELY with Pope Pius in converting Germanic society and supporting the church. The Church absorbed Nazi ideals and preached them as part of their sermons in turn Hitler placed Catholic teachings in public education. This photo depicts Hitler with Archbishop Cesare Orsenigo, the papal nuncio in Berlin. It was taken On April 20, 1939, when Orsenigo celebrated Hitler’s birthday. The celebrations were initiated by Pacelli (Pope Pius XII) and became a tradition.

              Each April 20, Cardinal Bertram of Berlin was to send “warmest congratulations to the Fuhrer in the name of the bishops and the dioceses in Germany with “fervent prayers which the Catholics of Germany are sending to heaven on their altars.” (If you would like to know more about the secret dealings of Hitler and the Pope I recommend you get a book titled: Hitler’s Pope: The Secret History of Pius XII, by John Cornwell)

              h) Due to Hitler’s involvement with the Church he began enacting doctrines of the Church as law. He outlawed all abortion, raged a death war on all homosexuals, and demanded corporal punishment in schools and home. Many times Hitler addressed the church and promised that Germany would implement its teachings: “The National Socialist State professes its allegiance to positive Christianity. It will be its honest endeavor to protect both the great Christian Confessions in their rights, to secure them from interference with their doctrines (Lehren), and in their duties to constitute a harmony with the views and the exigencies of the State of today.” –Adolf Hitler, on 26 June 1934, to Catholic bishops to assure them that he would take action against the new pagan propaganda “Providence has caused me to be Catholic, and I know therefore how to handle this Church.” -Adolf Hitler, reportedly to have said in Berlin in 1936 on the enmity of the Catholic Church to National Socialism”

            • Sassan says:

              “Hitler’s speeches and proclamations, even more clearly, reveal his faith and feelings toward a Christianized Germany. Nazism presents an embarrassment to Christianity and demonstrates the danger of their faith So they try to pin him on other theistic views. The following words from Hitler show his disdain for atheism, and pagan cults, and reveal the strength of his Christian feelings:

              “National Socialism is not a cult-movement– a movement for worship; it is exclusively a ‘volkic’ political doctrine based upon racial principles. In its purpose there is no mystic cult, only the care and leadership of a people defined by a common blood-relationship… We will not allow mystically- minded occult folk with a passion for exploring the secrets of the world beyond to steal into our Movement. Such folk are not National Socialists, but something else– in any case something which has nothing to do with us. At the head of our programme there stand no secret surmisings but clear-cut perception and straightforward profession of belief. But since we set as the central point of this perception and of this profession of belief the maintenance and hence the security for the future of a being formed by God, we thus serve the maintenance of a divine work and fulfill a divine will– not in the secret twilight of a new house of worship, but openly before the face of the Lord… Our worship is exclusively the cultivation of the natural, and for that reason, because natural, therefore God-willed. Our humility is the unconditional submission before the divine laws of existence so far as they are known to us men.” -Adolf Hitler, in Nuremberg on 6 Sept.1938. [Christians have always accused Hitler of believing in pagan cult mythology. What is written here clearly expresses his stand against cults.]

              “We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.” -Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Berlin on 24 Oct. 1933 [This statement clearly refutes modern Christians who claim Hitler as favoring atheism. Hitler wanted to form a society in which ALL people worshipped Jesus and considered any questioning of such to be heresy. The Holocaust was like a modern inquisition, killing all who did not accept Jesus. Though more Jews were killed then any other it should be noted that MANY ARYAN pagans and atheists were murdered for their non-belief in Christ.]

              Here Hitler uses the Bible and his Christianity in order to attack the Jews and uphold his anti-Semitism:

              “My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow my self to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows . For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.” –Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)

              “Christianity could not content itself with building up its own altar; it was absolutely forced to undertake the destruction of the heathen altars. Only from this fanatical intolerance could its apodictic faith take form; this intolerance is, in fact, its absolute presupposition.” -Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf (It is quite obvious here that Hitler is referring to destructing the Judaism alters on which Christianity was founded.)

              “The personification of the devil as the symbol of all evil assumes the living shape of the Jew.” -Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf (The idea of the devil and the Jew came out of medieval anti-Jewish beliefs based on interpretations from the Bible. Martin Luther, and teachers after him, continued this “tradition” up until the 20th century.)

              “With satanic joy in his face, the black-haired Jewish youth lurks in wait for the unsuspecting girl whom he defiles with his blood, thus stealing her from her people.” -Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf (It is common in war for one race to rape another so that they can “defile” the race and assimilate their own. Hitler speaks about this very tactic here.)

              “The best characterization is provided by the product of this religious education, the Jew himself. His life is only of this world, and his spirit is inwardly as alien to true Christianity as his nature two thousand years previous was to the great founder of the new doctrine. Of course, the latter made no secret of his attitude toward the Jewish people, and when necessary he even took the whip to drive from the temple of the Lord this adversary of all humanity, who then as always saw in religion nothing but an instrument for his business existence. In return, Christ was nailed to the cross, while our present- day party Christians debase themselves to begging for Jewish votes at elections and later try to arrange political swindles with atheistic Jewish parties– and this against their own nation.”–Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

              “…the fall of man in paradise has always been followed by his expulsion.” -Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf (See Genesis Chapter 3 where humankind is cast from Eden for their sins. Hitler compares this to the need to exterminate the Jews for their sin against Christ.)

              “Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.” –Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

              “The anti-Semitism of the new movement [Christian Social movement] was based on religious ideas instead of racial knowledge.” –Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf (This quote is very interesting for it disperses the idea that Hitler raged war due to being an Aryan supremacist. He states quite clearly that he has a problem with Jews for their belief not race. That is why many German Jews died in WW2 regardless of their Aryan nationality.)

              “Only in the steady and constant application of force lies the very first prerequisite for success. This persistence, however, can always and only arise from a definite spiritual conviction. Any violence which does not spring from a firm, spiritual base, will be wavering and uncertain.” –Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf (Here Hitler is admitting that his war against the Jews were so successful because of his strong Christian Spirituality.)

              Quotes from Other Nazis about Hitler and Religion:

              “Around 1937, when Hitler heard that at the instigation of the party and the SS vast numbers of his followers had left the church because it was obstinately opposing his plans, he nevertheless ordered his chief associates, above all Goering and Gobbels, to remain members of the church. He too would remain a member of the Catholic Church, he said, although he had no real attachment to it. And in fact he remained in the church until his suicide.” (Inside the Third Reich by Albert Speer page 95-96)”

              • Holly says:

                Keep in mind what Hitler said, ‘The worst thing the Jews gave us were Christians.’

                • Cary says:

                  Yes, that’s one of his most famous quotes, isn’t it?

                  Yet it’s one that those who want to claim that Hitler WAS a Christian tend to ignore.

                  Hitler hated Christianity, but he was more than willing to pretend to be one when it was convenient, in order to fool the “common rabble” into following his lead.

        • Sassan says:

          Again, you love to nit pick your history but Christians burning virgins at the stake during these solar eclipses is a historic fact that no one disputed. It happened during the dark ages. I did not read it from Richard Dawkins; actually, Dr. Michio Kaku mentioned this at one of his lectures a while back. And no, he doesn’t advocate atheism. I’ve also read it in religious history text. This is not something that is disputed by religious scholars themselves.

          Just go through a web search and read the articles yourself, I don’t have time right now but I have found some what seems relevant information (some are even religious sites which provide quotes of scripture regarding this):

        • Sassan says:

          I keep seeing specific points that you are ignorant of or have no knowledge; we know for a FACT that something happened nearly 14 billion years ago. What happened at the VERY VERY beginning is what scientists are investigating now at the Hadron Collider in Switzerland and France. Where is the evidence?? It is called the “Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation” which we can observe through the pictures we have took (!!! It is amazing and beautiful. To what happened exactly, we don’t know yet. Is our universe the ONLY universe or are we a universe of universes?? We hope to soon find out!

          In contrast, what can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof. It is as simple as that.

          • Cary says:

            We do not know “for a fact” that anything happened 14 billion years ago.

            We have only images we’ve taken from Earth’s surface or near-earth orbit, and only within the last several decades. We have fragments of information based upon tossing particles together and making a few observations.

            You like to toss out terms like “ignorance.” You really need to tone back your tone, kid. You don’t know nearly as much as you think you do.

            We have those few facts I mentioned above. We also have a MODEL which, as far as we know, fits the limited number of facts we currently have. The model may, or may not, be accurate. It’s just the best model we currently have been able to create.

            This is sort of like saying that the planetary model of the atom was “right” at the time it was created. That was superceded by a series of additional models, from the Bohr model to the current quantum-state model… and I’m sure that this model we currently use is FAR from complete or final.

            We’re trying to find explanations which fit the facts we have at hand. That’s science.


            We do not know, for a FACT, anything whatsoever about what happened 14 billion years ago. We ONLY know what we observed, fairly recently. We THINK we have a possible explanation for what we’ve observed. But can you say, with ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY, that there may not be some other explanation for the observations we’ve made?

            If you think so, you truly have no grasp whatsoever of what science is.

            • Sassan says:

              In regards to the Big Bang, it is FACT something happened nearly 14 billion years ago. What happened EXACTLY, that is what scienctists are right now investigating. If you don’t think it is fact, then you are truly naive. Again, do you know anything about the cosmic background microwave radiation we have observed and taken photographs of which clearly demonstrate some event like the Big Bang happened?? You can’t even claim that is a theory. The details are being worked out but the fundamental principle a major event took place 14 BILLION years ago is SOLID and UNDISPUTABLE.

            • Sassan says:

              “We have only images we’ve taken from Earth’s surface or near-earth orbit, and only within the last several decades. We have fragments of information based upon tossing particles together and making a few observations.”

              Near-eath orbit?? Earth’s surface?? I nominate this for the dumbest and most illiterate post of the year.

              • Cary says:

                You nominate it for the dumbest and most illiterate comment of the year.

                Honestly, kid, do you have ANY idea what the word “illiterate” even means? Or are you just so slow that you can’t come up with insults that at least somewhat reflect the topic at hand?

                Yes, NEAR EARTH ORBIT (primarily with the Hubble, but with other orbital instruments as well) and with ground-based observation systems.

                Where else, but near-Earth orbit and Earth’s surface do you believe we’ve made observations from? Please, enlighten this poor, illiterate, scientifically-ignorant moron.

                Do you secretly have a warp-drive starship you’ve been using to observe from other locations? Did Captain Picard show you other information not available to the rest of us?

                Maybe you also have a time machine, and have traveled to 14 billion years ago and have actually observed the events of that time directly?

                Inquiring minds want to know!

        • Rex Kramer says:

          Amen!!! :-)

  88. EriK says:

    If Islam gave civilization anything, it certainly wasn’t good video-editing techniques.

    Seeing them point to the “rock-on” sign given by bush and obama as impossibly evil ‘freemasonry signs’ was ridiculous. I don’t know whether to be more offended, surprised, or pitying.

    Keep watching. The Bible says we can’t know When things will happen ahead of time, but we will know when they are happening, so be watchful. Hold out in faith!

  89. follower says:

    Christ Jesus.

  90. Rafael says:

    To: Houman247FreeIran

    I’ve read your post and want to believe that what you are saying on this post, be from your heart, and that you really want a new beginning for your country and that Iran may be free. You must be very young, and maybe, just maybe, judging by your words, you have not yet had the seeds of hate sown into the soil of your heart, as I have clearly see on this video, where the very young, display the fruit of the seeds of hate. (As is the root – so is the fruit.) Sadly to say, many people from your side of the world dont share your ideas, instead they want to destroy, us, and other governments, even their very own people, for the sake of their religion. I learned very early in my life, that religion, any religion, is a customed made suit, especially if it’s used to hurt, or force one’s belief on others. Many of the religious nuts from that side of the world, have brought many of their woes on themselves, because a large percentage of the Iranian population actually support their political and religious leaders. The intentions and resolution to change the world is only found in the religion of Islam, and in no other religion. To even dare to come to our country, and through our very own laws, and our constitution that governs us, make an attempt to change our way of life, our freedom, and the way we choose to live that life; and even have the gull to try to impose Sheriah Law, a religion that imprisions those who are born under its tenets, and cut off their hands, their heads, and stone the poor and those who cannot defend themselves is insanity. And then dare to express through their religious hypocrisy, that the very god they profess, and call a mercyful god, can approve the killing and terrorizing of other countries for the sake of that religion. That kind of religion is not accepted by any normal human being unless they are brainwashed. They are serving the god of this world who came to kill, steal, and destroy. Satan is a murderer from the beginning, and those who do his work are his seed. What kind of god, takes away the liberty to live, supressing the ability to chose, and then destroys lives without a cause? Satan. The problem lays in the detail that there is a controling force, diabolical in nature, thats being channeled through the medium of religion that places guilt on its adepts if they dont participate. All the murders, and suicide bombings, and all the loss of life is solely done in the name of that god. A good example is that when another Immam, comes to our country, and tries to build a Mosque, on sacred ground, where lives of Americans where taken by these radical religious freaks, He then disrespects us as a people. You sound displeased because you feel that no one wants to accept “the message” but let me say that if this radiacalism would just stop for the sake of all the Arab nations, and all the nations of the would so we can live in peace, that would be Ideal. Thats “the message” Only Jesus said; Joh 14:27 “Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. Why is it that the real Messiah, is the only one who speaks of peace, and not the comming of this 12th Immam, who is to take the world by force, and make people afraid.
    Cant you see, that this video lays out a time of trouble ahead for every living person on both sides of the world. It shows a world take-over by radical leaders, and by force will force every single individual to accept their religion or death will ensue. I believe that you represent a very small percentage of those who can appreciate my America, for openning its door to you and yours. But, Please also understand that the Bible says that when the fig tree is in bloom, we can know that the summer is near, likewise, when we see and hear of all these things comming on the world, wars. pestilence, hunger, earthquakes, sedition, we are to know that the end is near, but it’s not really the end, but the beginning of birth pains, like those onto a woman in labor. My desire is that God grants you what you are saying here, because I cannot know whats in your heart. but He does. Peace in Jesus’ Name

  91. Robin says:

    Fits right in with The Book of Revelations, except the descriptions of the beast, anit-Christ, etc markedly resemble the ones in this video who claim to be the good guys. Could it be? My God of love and forgiveness does not resemble their doctrine of hate. It’s hard for me to imagine my God of love changing into their God of hate! God gets the final say – not these puny followers of hate – although they are allowed a few brief days of rule.

  92. Paul Bartron says:

    Mohammed came with no miracles. Whereas Jesus came with many miracles thereby proving that he had supernatural support. Moses came with miracles and so did Elijah. The Koran says on the bottom of page 184 Sura 17 “We send not a prophet with miracles but to strike terror.”
    Freemasonary is based on the Pagan religion of Eygpt.
    Iran may be able to raise an army for Islam whereas America will not. The wars of Afghanistan and and Iraq were based on lies, therefore, few if any Americans will continue to join the Armed forces. Britian will be able to raise even fewer recruits. Europe is far too busy fighting Islam on there own streets. The UK lost the Crimean War. Iraq and Afghanistan are logistical nightmares that cost the taxpayer one million dollars for every dollar spent by the insurgents. Europe and America will spend far more time dealing with economic demonstrations to have any time to bother with Islam.
    When it comes to the draft America will not re-enstate the draft.
    Anyone who thinks that Germany, of all countries, will fight to save Israel has gone completely mad. Russian girls are being forced into prostitution in Israel, so that anyone who thinks that Russia will fight on the side of Israel has also gone mad.
    Support for Israel has evaporated.
    Mainstream Christianity such as the Catholic Church will not support Israel and Martin Luther wrote “The Jews and their Lies”
    Mainstream Christianity will support the Peace movement.
    Those that think that European armies will come to save Israel are false prophets. No armies came to save Israel when Nero gave the order to destroy Jerusalem back in 70AD.
    “Those who have learned nothing from history are destined to repeat it.”

  93. anton says:

    Ready or not.
    Jesus is coming!

  94. anton says:

    Seek the Truth for yourselves.

    Life has many choices, eternity has two.

    The King of Peace, Christ Jesus will reveal Himself to the true seeker.

    a Witness of His lovingkindness.

  95. Mike... says:

    Being an American having lived in Iran in the mid-60′s I can say the Iranians are intelligent and beautiful people.

    It’s a shame that they have been subjected to such brutal and hateful Imams. Evil men!

    This is an amazing country with vast natural and archaeological wonders. It’s needless destruction pains me to no end. Especially since there are so many Christians living there. Haven’t they suffered enough?

    This radical Islamic uprising can be laid at one man’s feet, the liberal Jimmy Carter. When he and his administration abandoned the former Shah of Iran and allowed the return of Ayatollah Khomeini, he allowed the birth of radical Islam.

    The world has and never will be the same. The blood of thousands, perhaps millions will be on Jimmy Carter’s hands.

    Jimmy Carter like Bill Clinton show no shame for their actions, and how soon America forgets.

    • Cary says:

      Hi Mike,

      Just one linguistic correction there… you used the term Imam (capitalized) which is incorrect.

      There have only been 11 Imams throughout all of Islamic history. The final, 12th Imam is the one who’s referred to here, the “hidden Mahdi.”

      There is a very similar term, translated into English as “imam” (note – LOWER CASE, not capitalized). There have been many, many imams, but there have been only 11 Imams to date, with the 12th supposedly having been hidden in a cave until Allah brings about the final war to destroy the world we know and to replace it with the Islamic One World, recreated as a perfect paradise.

      It seems trivial from a Western standpoint, but the terms “imam” and “Imam” are not the same. We need to be accurate.

      Otherwise, however, I believe your statement, above, is spot on. And yes, I blame this “Peacemaker,” Jimmy Carter, for not only ALLOWING the 1979 revolution but of actively FOMENTING it. And just like today, Carter talked about that “nice man” the Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini who was at the center of that “democratic, people’s revolution.” He sided with Khomeini and BETRAYED the Shah.

      Was the Shah perfect? Not by any measure… but life under the Shah was far better than it has been since then, wasn’t it?

      The exact same thing has now happened in Egypt. Hosni Mobarak wasn’t perfect, but those who have now replaced him are going to prove to be far, far worse.

      And the same is in the process of happening in Libya now. Colonel Muammar al-Gaddafi is a bad, bad man… but those who are attempting to overthrow him are actually a lot worse.

      It is not true that “the enemy of my enemy is my friend.”

  96. Matt says:

    Did anyone else find it odd that Salron from Lord of the Rings made it in this video at 24:12?

  97. Tomas says:

    There isn’t any difference between this video, this entire “glorious returning,” than the Christian belief in the second coming. One mirrors the other in so many respects. It’s like watching Hal Lindsay in Persian.

    Also interesting is that these two second coming belief systems are chronologically convergent.

    (BTW – these people really look overjoyed, don’t they? You’d think they would be happier about the return of their Mahdi.)


    • Sassan says:

      It is for the simple fact is that most Christians don’t believe in that prophecy crap first off; and second off, those Christian wackos don’t control a government and oppress their own people. BIG DIFFERENCES.

  98. The ‘Imposter,’ the Islamic Antihrist, who will ‘confront God’s faith:’

    The Christian term “Antichrist” or the “Dajjal” in Islamic term, is often applied to prophecies regarding a “little horn” in Daniel 7:24-25. They also interpret Daniel 9:27 as referring to the Antichrist (2 Thess. 2:3-12) who will rule and reign for seven years during the Tribulation (Matthew 24:21).

    And some considers Daniel 11:36-37 that speaks of a self exalting king to be the Antichrist. Daniel 8:23-25 speaks of a “brazen-faced king” (Titus)… “and without strength he will be broken” (through a mosquito, the weakest of creatures, which entered his nose, Tractate Gittin (56b).

    However, all these verses speaks on none other than Titus and the kingdom of Rome and not about a fictional Antichrist.

    2 Thess. 2:3 – 4,8 is describing the “Antichrist” as the “lawless one” (which in reality it was Titus and the kingdom of Rome, Daniel 7:25, 8:25, 11:36).

    “He (the Antichrist who) takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God, – whom Jesus of Nazareth will destroy by his 2. coming” (2:4,8).

    The scenario to this fiction is taken from Isaiah 14:14, which speaks of the cataclysmic downfall of Nebuchadnezzar and Ezekiel 28:2, which speaks of none other than Hiram, king of Tyre.

    The Threshing Floor

  99. Billy says:

    May Father Yahweh bless your understanding.


  100. girlfulfilled says:

    Cary, YOU ARE AWESOME!!! I have ENJOYED your posts!!!

    Thankyou for so eloquently stating the facts as they pertain to true science… no doubt my future “arguements/debates” in this area will be more effective.

    -just want you to know that I appreciate the time you’ve put into posting… You should start a blog for people like me who believe exactly as you do, but, who may not have a science background or abiltiy to intelligently articulate the same message.

    I am going to copy and save your posts to my “arsenal” to aid in the fight against all those who’ve erected their alters to Darwin and “Science”.


    • Cary says:

      I’m glad that I’m able to be of service… this is just something I’ve felt led, very strongly, to do recently. And it seems that so have a lot of others, doesn’t it?

      It’s always been of interest to me that some of my peers have assumed that since I’m in the “high-IQ crowd” that I’d naturally be in agreement with them. I can’t count the number of times that people I’ve worked with have started mocking Christianity to me, expecting me to play along, and have been shocked… SHOCKED… when instead of laughing at their jokes, I systematically tore down their entire argument. I’ve lost a few friends that way, but I’ve also led a few friends to start questioning their preconceptions (that all people of faith are toothless, inbred, brainless trailer-dwellers subsisting on food stamps supplemented by captured squirrels and possums.)

      A few times, they’ve been further shocked when the majority of their coworkers sided with me, instead of with them.

      The problem, unfortunately, is that Christians have been told, through the misinterpretation of a single scripture (about the “meek”) that we must be passive when facing opposition. This is NOT what Christianity is about.

      As Christians, we are to BOLDLY DECLARE THE TRUTH. We have as our example Jesus, who responded with anger to the use of the Temple as a shopping center, literally whipping the merchants as they fled from him. That’s not “meek” as we’ve been led to believe we’re supposed to be…and this IS an example we’re expected to follow.

      We’re commanded to be bold. Not to “hide our beliefs.”

      But we’re also forbidden, by definition, to “force” others to follow what we say. Christianity is entirely about personal free will, and personal decisions. We have a choice, and we have to make that choice, and live with the consequences of our choice.

      The worst thing that has happened in the USA in recent decades has been how so many Christians have been transformed from righteous spiritual warriors in God’s service into meek, clammy-handed “nice people” who hide in fear and refuse to speak out about their belief, because “God will sort it all out.”

      I strongly encourage everyone here to be BOLD. Not “pushy” or “hostile” but never shy, never retiring, never “meek” in the sense that we’ve been taught to think of the word.

      That’s what I feel I’m being led to do… and I’m very happy to see that the service I’m offering is bearing some fruit! :)

      For anyone who is a Christian and who is not sure I’m right… please review these:

      Acts 4:13-31 and 28:30-31
      2 Corinthians 3:12
      Ephesians 3:12 and 6:19
      Philippians 1:20
      1 Timothy 3:13
      Hebrews 10:35
      1 John 2:28, 3:21, 4:17, and 5:14

      Don’t be passive, and wait on others to do the work which we’re required to do. Those who post here are not passive, to be certain… but your task is also to encourage others to be bold as well.

      • girlfulfilled says:

        AMEN to BOLDNESS!!!

        In fact, in recent weeks, I have gotten a new perspective on the old scripture:

        “And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two”

        … you know, that group of scriptures (Matt5:38-41) “they” all love to quote when they stumble upon a Christian who isn’t afraid to stand up to them! I always get the: “Whatever happened to turn the other cheek, Christian…?”

        I think your conversation with Sasson illustrates the message of “going the extra mile” to prove your case and give an account for the Hope that is within you!!!

        **Christians: Just because someone is opposed to your message does not mean that you should ignore their “challenges” in the matters of faith and cause you to abandon the “fight”. SPEAK THE TRUTH WITH BOLDNESS!!! Be ready to give an account for the Hope that is within you!

        Unfortunately, we also have those Christians who are toooo aggresssssive with their message (to whom I spoke earlier about “speaking the Truth in love”.) It is of no benefit to anyone, least of all Christianity, as a whole, to spout off ignorant half-truths as some immature Christians have done in their comments above. They make, even me, cringe!!! Please, people… get your biblical facts straight before you try to give advice, or admonish… you’re doing more to HURT Christianity, than help it!

        So, I will say it again… Cary, you have set the PERFECT EXAMPLE of the APPROPRIATE way in which a believer should engage in this type of conversation!!!

        Once again, many thanks!

        p.s.I loved your scripture references… added a couple from you to the results of my own search!

  101. Messenger says:

    The Mahdi will show himself, most likely in Mecca at Ramadan which is to be in August. He will take charge of the 2 mosques there in Arabia during the Haj. At That time you will see Saudi Arabia fall also to him and all other moslem nations to one leader that they can believe in. It is prophesied both in their religion as well as in the bible at Rev 17: 10-13 so you may read of it yourself. And if it occurs at that time, we will know the name of him that is to be the antichrist as well the false prophet, Isa and also know that the time is at hand, with only 7 years left. Even the great islamic Clerics see this as there are so many uprisings taking place in their lands, which has never happened before this time. This also only verifies that the fall of Tunisia on Jan 15, 2011 was the date that started the tribulation period. God may mark the date to begining when the Antichrist introduces himself as Al Mahdi in Mecca at the Haj in August. He will also most likely have Esa (Jesus) with him. Esa will speak to those at the mosque of the prophet in Medina; while Al Mahdi will speak at the Great Mosque of Mecca. Both will unite 3 million moslems there.

    10 They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. 11 The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.
    12 “The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast. 13 They have one purpose and will give their power and authority to the beast. REV 17:10-13

    The 5 kingdoms will mostly be Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, Syria, & Iraq. The 3 kingdoms remaining would be Saudi Arabia & Jordan
    The other 10 countries to get their leader will be: Pakistan, Afganistan, Morrocco, Algeria, Lebanon, Palestine, Kuwait, Turkey, Iran, & Yeman

  102. Messenger says:

    The 7 Kingdoms of the Tribulation (Rev 17)

    The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (Arabic: المملكة العربية السعودية‎),
    Founded in 1932 by King Saud

    The Kingdom of Libya, (Arabic: المملكة الليبية‎
    Established in 1951-1969

    Kingdom of Tunisia
    Established in 1956 by the Bey of Tunis, Muhammad VIII al-Amin Bey

    Kingdom of Egypt
    Under King Fuad in 1921: King Farouk in 1936

    Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan (Arabic: المملكة الأردنية الهاشمية),
    Established in 1946 w/king Abdullah Hussein as ruler

    Kingdom of Iraq
    Established 1921 by King Faisal

    Kingdom of Syria
    Established in 1920 by King Faisal

  103. Sassan says:

    AmirHossein=regime thug. Please remember that the regime has a “cyber army” which is a paid element for these types of propaganda messages. I DID NOT MEET ONE IRANIAN OVER THE 8-MONTHS I WAS IN IRAN WHO TRULY BELIEVED IN IMAM ZAMAN AND THAT NONSENSE CRAP. Imam Zaman can go eat his chela kabob in his chah and leave rest of the Iranian people alone and let them live in freedom and dignity.

    • Houman247FreeIran says:

      very nicely said…. their imam mahdi is in a Well which the Terrorist AHMADINEJAD pays annual visits and rops flowers and other stuff and have food next to eat as a ritual… These left back in the 1st century terrorists are nothing but a Curse on this earth… Gd save us All !

    • Cary says:

      Here, at least, is something that you can I can agree upon.

      I’ve known many Iranians over the years… and among them are people who I consider to be among the bravest and most admirable I’ve ever known.

  104. motomojo says:

    Just reading these post’s explains the very reason we are in such trouble.


    You people and this second coming please give it a rest.
    You are all falling for the story the Jews have perpetrated on all of you so you will kill each other for the them so they can have their 1000 years of peace… once the idiot Christians who have been brainwashed by Zionism bring about the so called “Armageddon” (they can’t wait)and wipe out all humanity.
    Those Christians left will all be made to (as you Christians so love to boldly state) “Every Knee Shall Bow, Every Mouth Confess Blah blah blah Blah”
    well you will be a bowing but it won’t be to who you think iy will be and then you and yours will be slaves of the Zionist Jews for a 1000 years.

    Read the Book “The Union Jack” see how this whole fraud has bee perpetrated on us all.


    Also There ain’t no Rapture either
    so you should get up off your Blessed ASSurance and prepare cos you ain’t going nowhere but here!

    • Cary says:

      You’ve just stated a whole slew of claims, again as if we’re supposed to accept them as factual.

      It’s worth noting that Judaism is not in agreement with Christianity, although Christianity does accept Judaism as its foundation.

      The term “Zionist” is a term used almost exclusively by the radical “pure Koranic” Islam. By using that term, you show your hand, my friend. Perhaps you’d care to explain how, by the use of this term, you haven’t associated yourself with the cabalistic, apocalyptic Islamic Caliphate movement we’ve been discussing?

      No one here is showing stupidity. Even those with whom I have strongly disagreed have at least used their minds in their arguments, even if not as well as I might like. I see no indication of any “mass stupidity.” I do see occasional “moments of stupidity,” of course… but I’ll even treat the brief showing of that in your post as an exception, if you’re willing to argue intelligently rather than throwing around brattish insults.

      You clearly are not Christian, nor Jewish. Please, identify your own beliefs, to start with. Full disclosure is the foundation of a productive dialog.

      I can state, with absolute certainty, that you’ve made several utterly false claims.

      For example, you claim that “Christians have been brainwashed by Zionism to bring about the so called Armageddon.” If you knew ANYTHING about Christianity, you would know that we are not going to have anything to do with Armageddon.

      For those not aware, the so-called “Battle of Armageddon” is named that because of where it is expected to occur, in a valley in the northern region of Israel called Migedda. Armageddon simply means “battle at Migedda.”

      This is referred to as the location where forced from the north and the east will move to attack Israel with overwhelming force. Those forces will, however, fail utterly, according to Christian prophecy. They will be annihilated by God, but the fuel supplies provided to Israel by this army will be sufficient to provide fuel to Israel for a long time into the future.

      So… how exactly are Christians, who are UNINVOLVED with the prophetic “Battle of Armageddon” somehow going to “bring it about?”

      You know who’s going to bring this about, if it happens? Those nations which which will be behind the move to invade Israel. Which, frankly, looks an awful lot like we’re talking about Iran and Syria. Of course, we’re not talking about Assad… we’re talking about whoever Iran is preparing to replace him with. Watch the news!

      I’ll say it again. This attack IS going to take place, and likely within six months. If Israel is destroyed, then we’ll all have to accept that Islam is true. If Israel is not destroyed but is terribly damaged, we’ll know… not much, really, in prophetic terms.

      But if effectively the entire invading force is wiped out, and Israel is left essentially unharmed… you will know, INCONTROVERTIBLY, that Christian prophecy is true. Which will mean that Christianity is itself true.

      As far as the Rapture goes… that’s one belief that many, but not all Christians, follow. I personally hope that this happens, but am proceeding from the assumption that it won’t. We’ve got premillenialists, post-millenialists, amillenialists, pre-tribulationalists… there are plenty of different takes on this, and there is no one settled viewpoint. I think we can safely say that LeHaye and Jenkin’s take is probably not 100% accurate, but beyond that, I’m not going to rely on anything but what God actually says (through scripture) and what God actually does.

      I’m a big fan of the concept of “Hope for the best but plan for the worst.” Some people might call that pessimism, but I disagree. I’m actually a very happy man because of this… because I never have unpleasant surprises, but I get plenty of pleasant ones.

      One request for you, Motomojo… if you seriously want people to read this book, you should give us a basic synopsis. I’m a voracious reader, but I prefer not to waste my time on meaningless pablum. I’ve read the full Koran, and several of the supporting documents… so I can speak on this subject with a degree of authority.

      Why should I care about “The Union Jack,” something I’ve never even heard of until now?

  105. Prophecy Gal says:

    Dear motomjo:

    It is amazing to me that you would choose to believe a book “The Union Jack” written by a nobody that has only been around a few years and not scrutinized rather than the Bible that has stood the test of time and held up with no reproach. Isn’t your eternity worth more to you than that?

    • motomojo says:

      Both books written by Jews to inform future Jews of the plan and keep them following the “SCRIPT”ures (the bible is their script much like their Hollywood Movie Scripts)to manifest the plan while deceiving the Goyium into believing that it’s all for them… It’s not.

      “The people will not cease to work for their own servitude until the day when the Jews will say to them,
      “We beg your pardon! You have not understood. The State, this State which owns everything, is not you! It is us!”

      and here’s an excerpt from another book (Suppressed these days by the Jews) for ya to look into Prophecy Gal (or is the bible the only thing you are allowed to read)

      For more than 100 years, people have sensed a sinister & malevolent power stealthily encroaching on their freedom and security. The following is an excerpt from a French book now suppressed: “La Conjuration Juive Contre Les Peuples” (1909) by Paul Copin-Albancelli (1851-1939.) While it focuses exclusively on the Jewish role, we should remember two points.

      1. The Illuminati (Cabalist) Jewish bankers have empowered a proxy Gentile elite,with whom they have intermarried. The Gentile leadership, organized in Freemasonry, is a full partner in this diabolical plan. (For anyone in doubt, I recommend the book, “Unholy Alliances” by Dr. James Wardner.) The Illuminati cult began as a satanic Jewish heresy that took over Judaism, Freemasonry, Communism, Zionism, Socialism, Liberalism, Fascism, feminism etc.
      Human history and political life are a charade conjured by these Cabalist magicians with the help of the mass media.

      Humanity is the political and mental prisoner of the Illuminati . We are being inducted into their cult via the media and education. All of our “leaders” belong to this cult. Advancement is based on witting or unwitting cooperation with the Illuminati agenda.

      2. The majority of Jews, and people in general, are kept in the dark, the better to dupe/entice them into advancing it.

      Copin-Albancelli says that publicly-held companies and “democracies” (“Republics”) are ways of disguising Illuminati wealth and power which has been dominant for more than a hundred years.

      As you read this early description of the NWO, remember it was written eight years before the Bolshevik revolution.]


      There is in existence a plan of world organization about which much has been said for several years past, in favour of which determined propaganda has been made among the masses, and toward which our present rulers are causing us to slide gradually and unconsciously.

      We mean to say the socialist and collectivist organization. It is that which is the most in harmony with the character, the aptitude and the means of the Jewish race; it is that which bears the signature, the trademark of this new reigning people; it is that which it wishes to impose on the Christian world because it is only by this means that it can dominate the latter.

      Instead of wearing a military or political character, the dictatorship imposed by the Jewish race will be a financial, industrial, commercial dictatorship. At least for a time, it will show itself as little as possible. The Jews have endowed the commercial, industrial and financial world with the Joint-Stock company, for the exploitation of nations called Republic, thanks to which they are able to hide their immense riches. They will endow the entire Christian world with that which they have bestowed on France : the Joint-Stock company for the exploitation of nations called Republic, thanks to which they are able to hide their kingship.

      We are moving the towards the Universal Republic [the NWO, Communism] because it is only thus that the Jewish financial industrial and commercial kingship can be established. But under its republican mask, this kingship will be infinitely more despotic than any other. It will be exactly that which man has established over the animal. The Jewish race will maintain its hold upon us by our needs. It will rely on a strongly organized and carefully chosen police so generously paid so that it will be prepared to do anything just as the Presidents of the republic who are given 1.2 million francs and who are chosen especially for the purpose, are ready to put their signatures to anything.

      Beyond the police, nothing but workmen on one side and on the other engineers, directors and administrators will on the contrary be Jews; we do not say the Jews and their friends; we say, the Jews, for the Jews then will have no more friends. And they will be a hundred times right, in such a situation to rely only upon those who be of the “Race.”

      This may all seem impossible to us; and nevertheless it will come about in the most natural way in the world, because everything will have been prepared secretly, as the revolution was. In the most natural way in the world we say, in this sense that there must always be engineers, directors and administrators so that the human flock may work and live and that, furthermore, the reorganization of the world which we shall have disorganized cannot be operated save by those who have previously gathered in wealth everywhere.

      By reason of this privileged situation, which we are allowing to become established for their benefit, the Jews alone will be in a position to direct everything. The peoples will put their hand to the wheel to bring about this state of things, they will collaborate in the destruction of all other power than that of the state as long as they are allowed to believe that the state, this State which possesses all, is themselves.

      They will not cease to work for own servitude until the day when the Jews will say to them, “We beg your pardon! You have not understood. The State, this State which owns everything, is not you! It is us!”

      The people then will wish to resist. But it will be too late to prevent it, because all moral forces having ceased to exist, all material forces will have been shattered by that same cause. Sheep do not resist the sheep dog trained to drive them and possessing strong teeth.

      All that the working class could do is to refuse to work. The Jews are not simpletons enough not to foresee that. They will have provisions for themselves and for their watch dogs. They will allow famine to subdue resistance. [Prevision of the Ukrainian Holomodor] If the need should arise they would have no scruple in firing on the people, mutinous but unarmed, their police made invincible [by] the most up-to-date arms…

      France has known — and she has not forgotten the rule of the Masonic Terror. She will know, and the world will know with her the rule of the Jewish Terror.

      BTW Cannot you Christians do any thinking at all or is belief so strong you feel no need to think?

      I mean you call yourselves “Judeo-Christians” and “Christian Zionist” I mean really how do you put these two together??

      The Jews hate Christ and in their Holy book the Talmud he is in Hell in a pit of shit so how can you Christians who LOVE Christ join yourselves with those who HATE Christ… I’ll tell you how DECEPTION, BLIND FAITH, and above all STUPIDITY!!

      –Menachem Begin (Israeli Prime Minister, 1977-1983)

      • Cary says:

        You’re definitely a total anti-Semite (actually a bit of a misnomer, since both Jews and Arabs are Semitic races, but you get my point). You’d do well to tone down the vitriol a bit.

        That said, I have no MAJOR problem with some of what you’ve said. It is understood that the Jewish people misunderstand the relevance of being “God’s Chosen People.”

        If this meant what some of these people believe, they Jews would never have been defeated, or driven out, or taken into bondage, or gone through any of the punitive treatments they’ve received.

        I see this in a slightly different light. I see Israel, and the Jewish people, as the one subgroup of humanity which God has chosen as his “object lesson.” He’s spent a great deal of human history POUNDING on these people, in order to make his points to the rest of us. They’re chosen… but not chosen for “special benefits.” They’re chosen to be the focus of God’s actions on Earth, so that we can more easily see the reality of the situation. Israel, and the Jewish people, have been protected from all harm at times, and have at other times (when they’ve strayed from obedience to God) been pounded mercilessly.

        God loves them, but He loves all of us. They’re His “chosen people,” in large part, because they’re the focus of His efforts to teach all of us how to obey Him.

        Right now, Israel is in a protected status, for the first time in a very, very long time. This will last for a short time longer… but this protection WILL BE WITHDRAWN before the current period in history ends, and Israel will be devastated by warfare… though not in the same way that the rest of the world will be.

        Jews aren’t “better than the rest of us” but they ARE the “chosen of God” in order to serve a focal role in God’s interaction with the human race.

        • motomojo says:

          Cary says:
          “You’re definitely a total anti-Semite (actually a bit of a misnomer, since both Jews and Arabs are Semitic races, but you get my point)”.

          Sorry to inform you that the Jews in Israel are in fact Khazar Jews adopting the Jewish Religion but not semitic people at all.
          this is so elementary that I am surprised you don’t know.

          • Cary says:

            I beg to differ…

            The term “Semite” is actually derived from “Shem,” one of Noah’s sons. Supposedly, his descendants were called that. (Remember, the language in which all of this was written and/or spoken wasn’t English, and the real pronunciation is something of a hybrid between “Sem” and “Shem”)

            The Hebrews/Israelites were undeniably Semitic. But, as my point was, there are many, many other subcategories of people who are Semitic. “Jew” and “Semite” are not truly synonymous, although the term “antisemitic” is typically used with the sole context of “anti-Jew.”

            Again, while we all know Wikipedia isn’t the ultimate authoritative source, it’s typically a good starting point, so:


          • Cary says:

            To add a bit to that, I did look into your suggested definition, and found information which seems not to conform to what you just said. Again, the “wikipedia” page on this term (which I admit to never having heard of previously)…


            According to that reference, these weren’t Jews, but rather a nomadic tribe among the Turks, and were apparently notable in Eastern Europe as well.

            While it is true that some of the people currently living in Israel are not natively semitic, but rather of European extraction, this is no more or less the case than with any other people or social grouping throughout the world.

            For instance, here in the USA, we generally (with small but fairly vocal exceptions) think of each other primarily as Americans, not as much based upon our original ethnic origin. In my own case, I couldn’t care less where my ancestors came from… nor where anyone else’s ancestors came from. I judge people according to how they behave, and upon any other characteristic which is within their ability to control…

            Unfortunately, this level of egalitarianism isn’t as common as it ought to be, even here… but it’s more common in the USA than it is in virtually any other place on Earth. The ideal (and in particular, the CHRISTIAN idea) is to treat all people based upon who they choose to be, not based upon who their ancestors may have been.

            This is certainly how I choose to live my own life. I’m more than willing to judge people’s actions… sometimes harshly… but this is based upon what they choose to do, and how they choose to act. And I’m well aware that by doing so, I’m opening myself up to equally unvarnished judgment from others… and while I’m far from perfect, I try my absolute best to be able measure up to my own standards and to the standards of others. I’ll never measure up to God’s standards, but thankfully, I don’t have to.

            • motomojo says:

              Wikipedia? please disinfo we are not looking for.
              Your going to have to do a lot better than that to convince any but the deceived.





              and I can give you many more like these.

              I understand that none of this will break through you programing
              you are too invested in the Lie to admit it even if you were to see the truth in the information I have provided in all of my post’s.

              Remember God said he would send a great delusion that none would be able to see unless they were to have Eyes that see and ears that hear… This is the delusion and you have fallen for it as you have been programed to do.

              I truly hope all so called Christians will open their eyes and seek truth because what you hold as truth is the biggest Lie ever perpetrated on the human race

              • Cary says:

                Well, as I said, it’s a good place to start, though certainly not “authoritative.” We all know that anyone can add to, or edit, entries.

                This is both good and bad, though. I have NO IDEA about the source of the articles you’ve provided. You might have created them yourself. They might have been created by someone who is literally delusional. I see few references, and lots of “information” which seems to contradict widely-accepted information.

                This doesn’t make it false, mind you… but it does put a HUGE “burden of proof” on the author to support his (or her?) statements.

                Wikipedia is a good starting point, because if one person puts up information which is not in agreement with the accepted version, it will be corrected pretty rapidly.

                If the “accepted version” is untrue (as you seem to be claiming), then this is a potential shortcoming, that’s true enough. But for someone to contradict conventional wisdom, they must realize that more than just unsupported claims have to be there.

                I’ll admit, I haven’t read every single linked article you’ve put up. If I did, it would take far more of my time than I currently have available, and would distract from what I believe are more pertinent issues.

                I do NOT have any “programming.” You should dial back that tone, as well as the antisemitic tone you were using previously, if you want anyone to take you seriously.

                I describe my attitude this way… I have a well-developed world-view, but I’ve been known to change my mind on certain issues from time to time, if someone presents a compelling enough argument.

                So far, your argument hasn’t been very compelling, at least a far as I’m concerned.

                I KNOW the origin of the term Semite. As for the term “Khazar,” I have not previously heard of it, but I see no cause at this point to take your word on this over what I already knew. WE ALL KNOW THAT THE ISRAELITES WERE SEMITES. WE ALSO ALL KNOW THAT THE ARABS ARE ALSO SEMITES. This is not up for dispute. If you want to claim that some of the modern Israelites are, instead, some other ethnicity… that’s fine. But I hardly see this as being relevant in any way. It’s what’s INSIDE that matters. I was just pointing out your obvious hatred for the Jewish people… regardless of the who their most ancient ancestors may or may not have been.

  106. Quote from the Iranian documentary: “Freemasons, the Imposter in the End of Time: Freemasons are a secret society with the final goal of a devilish governance of the world with Jerusalem as its capital.

    Their belief is a devilish ideology with its roots dating back to the Pharaos. In the past two centuries, this devilish organization has gained much power in this world.

    Freemasons have many signs , but the two most important ones aret he shining eye and the six pointed star. Their signs have much similarity with those who worship evil…”

    Freemasons: The Deadly Deception, by James D. Shaw and Tom C. McKenny: “The Shrine (“Ancient Arabic Order. Nobles of the Mystic Shrine”) is available to 32nd Degree Masons and Knights Templar who wish to partipicate (p 58).

    The Shrine (p 73-74), The Show Army of Masonry” maintains a very high profile… it is necessary to be a 32nd Degree Mason before being eligible to join the Shrine.” Only the highest Freemasons may join the Shrine.

    Shrine in the name of Allah: ”With the Koran on the Altar we sealed our solemn oath in the name of Allah, the God of Arab, Moslem and Mohammedan, the God of our fathers.”

    Every Shriner kneeling before the Koran takes this oath in the name of Allah and acknowledges this pagan god of vengeance as his own ’the God of our fathers’. And in the ritual he acknowledges Islam, the declared blood enemy of Christianity (and Judaism), as the true path.

    Complete Oath: “In willful violation whereof may I incur the fearful penalty of having my eyeballs pierced to the center with a three-edged blade, my feet flayed and I be forced to walk the hot sands upon the sterile shores of the Red Sea until the flaming Sun shall strike me with a livid plague, and may Allah, the god of Arab, Moslem and Mohammedan, the god of our fathers support me to the entire fulfillment of the same” (from the oath of obligation. Ancient Arabic Order of the Nobles of the Mystic Shrine “Shriners”).

    VIDEO: The Islam and Catholic Connection: (Astro-Theology-Religion-Symbolism) By Professor; Walter J. Veith:

  107. Messenger says:

    I have met plenty who don’t seem to worry because they think that they will be raptured out just before these things begin to happen. But, what if they are wrong. Then what will they do? Lose their faith when the false prophet, Isa, being Jesus, reveals them more false information. They will most likely take the mark.
    They have been taught a false religion for sure. There are churches in Houston who claim 20,000 members each. They attract such a large membership preaching an always positive message, so these people always get an uplift when they show up on Sundays. This gets the church lots of money in the offering plate fir that great uplift. They handle the end times with how one scripture says they will be raptured out and not taste death, while many others say just the opposite. They even bought that book, “Left Behind,” series believing they, as Christians, would be saved from all this. Well, now that the tribulation has begun on Jan 15, 2011 and the other events are about to happen; by telling them in advance what is to happen and what to look for, I hope to change their minds, so that can prepare for other circumstances. One of those churches was the Crystal Cathedral, which is now in bankruptcy. Once they can’t believe in the church anymore, they tend to go astray. They will have to face all these things w/o faith and be swallowed up by the beast, as they holler for their lives being ended. They need to stop listening to those churches who fail to reveal the truth. That is my message I was given in Egypt and face the truth. However, I seem to meet those who are already gone on this site. There are a few baby boomers that have already lived a good life and must die someday anyway. So if they have to die a few years earlier for their faith, so be in in the name of Christ. Since all those who do manage to survive will face Armageddon or become those used to bury the dead and will have witnessed all these things before, their survival will not be pretty. I prefer to be swept away in the name of Jesus and enjoy life thereafter at the great feast sharing our testimony & experience in heaven as opposed to some other ending, so I am preparing for such trying to interpret his word to have some realistic meaning like you & others out and how it relates to we all who will have to face the event head on! Being old, I don’t expect to fight the young for survival to see the opening of the 7th seal that reveal the sounding of the 7 trumpets and all that follows. I simply would like to exit soon after the 1st seal is opened.

    Common Sense Reasoning
    The main reason there will be no rapture is because it has no purpose except to serve self-gratification of our own self. We as Christians usually want to serve God by bringing others to Christ when they are ready to be saved. So, when the great earthquake hits San Francisco during the tribulation period, while destroying the great waterway that supplies the Los Angeles/San Diego region bring about the calamity of 25 million people without water as well as all homes without that water becoming worthless overnight, leaving the mortgage brokers with worthless notes; thus destroying the entire economy in only one day, I would think that would tend to humble even the movie stars & entertainers after losing their entire fortunes overnight, while the feds try and maintain law & order while limiting withdrawal amounts per person at the banks as ready cash would be somewhat short to cover the US population trying to help others in dire need. God has managed to humble many a non-Christian in only one day of disasters. Why would He rapture out all the Christians who could be available to save many souls willing now to listen to God’s message.

    Scripturally Written
    According to Revelations 7:13-17, those who came out of the rapture were with tears, tasted hunger and thirst, so that God had to wipe their eyes, so they would thirst no more. If they had been raptured and were in Heaven, they would have been singing praises unto Him with smiles on their faces. According to Rev 6, they were slain for their beliefs in God, after experiencing famine, disease, & violence during the reign of the Antichrist. In II Thessalonians 2:9-12, they deny the mark of the beast, and the lie that go with it, being a delusion; thus, dying for their faith.

    Accounting of the Souls
    God also talks about how 1/3 of the world would perish from violence during those times as well as another 1/3 from plague, thirst, & famine, Leaving 1/3 to enforce law & order, who later perish in the Great Battle of Armageddon, with those remaining to bury the dead, which will take 7 months!

    Others before Us
    The believers in Roman Times sang praises unto the Lord as they walked to their deaths in the coliseum as their faith never waned; yet they were not raptured because their deaths served a purpose that Romans would all be Christian once they saw how strong the Christian was in his faith toward Jesus Christ.

    Be Prepared for Hard Times
    It is better to be ready with the oil in one’s lamp for the coming of the tribulation and if we are lucky enough to be raptured, that would be a blessing; however, I would not put all my faith in that for you may be disappointed

    The Judgment Day
    Since most will be tried as it was on earth among their peers; there will be plenty of witnesses to tell what they saw during the tribulation period. That is why God had those arrive in Heaven with tears in their eyes; for God had to wipe the tears and the memories after they testified what they saw during those times, including mayhem & murder.

    What Purpose?
    I ask you, “Can any of you explain what selfish purpose rapturing all the Christians out during such a grave period when those non-believers might need our comforting words and might then be saved?”

    • Nas says:

      Sounds like matyrdom

    • According to the Christian
      “Rapture doctrine,” Jesus (Mark 13:27) “will send out his angels and gather together his chosen people (the Christians) from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven.”

      - To the place which Jesus has prepared for them in heaven (John Ch. 14). See also 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17.- In rescuing them; “the elected” “from the wrath to come” (1:10).

      “Two men will be in a field – one will be taken and the other left behind.” They asked him, “Where, Lord?” He answered, “Wherever there’s a dead body, that’s where the vultures gather” (Luke 17:34-37, Matt. 24:31,36-41).

      The false story of Matthew having Jesus returning (24:27-31) on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory comes from a mixture of scriptures from the Jewish Bible; which speaks about the Ingathering of the Israelite tribes to the Land of Israel at the end of days: Jeremiah 3:14-15, Deut. 30:4-5, Isaiah 27:12-13, Ezekiel 37:9, Zech. 2:10.

      In the NT these verses are put together into a subtle story which has no root in reality.

      The Ingathering

    • Cary says:

      Well, let me preface this by saying that I’m not committed to any particular “sequence”… ie, I’m not convinced that there will be a pre-tribulation Rapture. I know that there are many trains of thought on the subject, and I’ve heard reasonably convincing interpretations supporting each side. The bottom line is… we simply don’t know.

      That said, suppose that there is a “Rapture” prior to the Tribulation. There are many potential positives that could come from this. Not the least of which is, as some recent fictional accounts have conveyed, that this would be a MASSIVE “wake-up call” to those who suddenly realize that all the committed Christians are suddenly gone. I can think of nothing, short of actual exposure to God Himself, that would be more dramatic, can you?

      Suppose that this happens… the sides would be painted more clearly than ever before. Some (and I’m sure a few who’ve posted here) would actually CELEBRATE the “death” of all those annoying Christians (although it wouldn’t be “death” in the sense that it might seem to these people). But others… particularly people who are familiar with the claims but have rejected it or ignored it for any number of reasons might suddenly realize the depth of their error. This is a very popular interpretation of prophecy for exactly that reason.

      I’m not convinced that’s what’s going to happen… it’s POSSIBLE, but sometimes I think it’s promoted a bit too heavily and may involve a certain degree of “wishful thinking” among those who hope to be spared any of the rough going that’s undeniable ahead.

      So, my perspective is simply that I hope to be spared, but I’m assuming (and planning for) the time that I have to deal with all this unpleasantness which is soon to come.

  108. Messenger says:

    . In Rev 20:4, the Christian is slain for his belief instead of taking the mark of the beast. Because of this, he will reign 1000 years w/Jesus Christ and will become holy as a saint according to the scripture for dying like Jesus and the 1st Christian martyrs in the coliseum.

  109. Mike... says:


    You’re spot-on in correcting me, thank-you!


    PS: I also agree with your other comments.

  110. Prophecy Gal says:

    Dear Motomojo:

    So many complex religious views in this life.
    Who should we believe? Will we believe the one who desires we blow ourselves up to get to heaven or the One who came to earth and died for ALL mankind? The One who showed great love for ALL and only requires that we confess with our mouths and believe in our hearts that He died on the cross for our sins and we WILL BE saved from hell and damnation. Or, would you rather jump through all the “hoops” that other religions require we jump through? Is it really a difficult decision for you?

    • motomojo says:

      Jesus said that his Kingdom was not of this world so if you think you will rule and reign with him (here on earth)for a 1000 tears you really need to do some serious thinking about that.

    • Jesus is regarded as a true prophet in Islam, and he is supposed to have said (Matthew 22:30): “For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.”

      Suicide terrorist tells mother to be happy on “wedding day:” ”My dear mother, you who have cared for me… Don’t let me see you sad on my wedding day with the Maidens of Paradise. So be happy and not sad, because in the name of Allah, after death is merciful Allah’s paradise…”

      Female Martyrs will be one of 72 Maidens of Paradise: Female terrorist: “The reward was from Allah, in Paradise. The female Martyrdom-seeker becomes one of the Dark-Eyed [Maidens], and she marries one of the Shahids” (Suicide Terror & Shahada, Palestinian Media Watch).

      Luke 23:42-43: “Then he (the criminal) said to Jesus: “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.” And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

      2 Corinthians 12:2-4 “I know a man in Christ, who fourteen years ago- -whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know. God knows such a one was caught up to the third heaven.

      And I know such a man- -whether in the body or out of the body, I do not know, God knows – how he was caught up into Paradise, and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.”

      Doesn’t sound like a place with everlasting sexual bliss and 72 virgins… Eventually, when they realize the folly of their ways they will capitulate.

  111. Nas says:

    He will make himself known in the big gay MAHDIGRA…. And so it came to pass….

  112. Prophecy Gal says:

    Dear Motomojo:

    There has always been opposition to the “Good News” of the gospel since Jesus Christ came to redeem man. So your link is not surprising to me.

    Perhaps you haven’t heard the story of the two men being punished/crucified next to Jesus Christ on the cross when Jesus was crucified to pay for your sins and mine. One of the men recognized that Jesus was God and Jesus told him he would be in paradise with Jesus that day. After Jesus died He rose from the grave after 3 days and 500 people witnessed him in his resurrected body walking around. Jesus’s body is still not in the grave. Where is His body motomojo?

    Jesus never claimed he was a prophet but that He is God. I believe that Jesus Christ is God. I believe in the Trinity. God is One in three persons the Father (NOT Allah the moon god), Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. Who is the God of Abraham.

    We, as true believers in Jesus Christ, know that there are “goats”
    (the opposition to Gospel) among “sheep” (the true believers in Jesus Christ). We will stand strong in our faith in Jesus Christ to the death, if necessary.

    But, more importantly, what about you?

    Jesus died for me and saved me from damnation.

    What has Mohammed done for you?

    • motomojo says:

      obviously you read nothing as the link I gave you had nothing to do with what you just said.

      You are deceived and I am truly sorry that you cannot see through the deception.

      I wish you all the best as you will need it when the deceptive truth you have accepted destroys you.

      When we stand before God to give an account of all that we have done in this life there will be many conservatives standing before Jesus, saying, “Lord, Lord, did we not vote Republican in your name, and in your name drive out homosexuals and prevent many abortions?” just to hear Jesus tell them plainly, “I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!” However, there will also be progressives standing before Jesus in judgment, saying, “‘Lord, Lord, did we not feed the hungry, and clothe the naked and comfort the sick and imprisoned?” just to hear Jesus tell them plainly, “I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!”

      Your on the wrong team though you don’t even know it.

      “My People are destroyed for a lack of knowledge”

      Now go back and actually read the link I sent as well as these
      and read with an open mind and let the Holy Spirit open your eyes.
      I know this is most likely impossible for you as you are so Invested in the Lie but give the Holy Spirit a chance you will be amazed at what can be revealed to those who seek Truth.

      • Prophecy Gal says:

        Maybe on the wrong side in your opinion on earth but on the right side when we get to heaven. And, when I see Jesus there I will tell Him to be merciful to you and forgive you for how you’ve rejected Him as our Savior and God.

        “For this reason I also suffer these things; nevertheless I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day.” 2nd Timothy 1:12

        • Prophecy Gal says:

          Dear Motomojo:

          oops… here’s the full version of the verse..

          I join the apostle Paul in saying,
          “8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God, 9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began, 10 but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, 11 to which I was appointed a preacher, an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles. 12 For this reason I also suffer these things; nevertheless I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day. 2 Timothy 1:8-12 (New King James Version)

          • motomojo says:

            ahhh good old Saul of Tarsus an Apostle was he? I think not.

            It was James who led the early Apostles and it was Peter upon whom the church would be built. Yet today you wouldn’t know it or even think it. Walk into any assembly anywhere and the Pauline doctrines are dominant. Why does it matter? Because Peter and Paul are night and day. Peter was an apostle with a mantle from Yahweh to build His church, and he did, but the latter Pauline Christians rejected it and took over Christianity. Paul was a self-proclaimed apostle, whom the apostles rejected as an apostle, but accepted as a brother.

            There were blatant disagreements and arguments between Paul and the Apostles. There were only 12 apostles, not 13. “And on the wall of the city had twelve foundations; and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb” Rev.21:14. In the beginning there were 12, and at the end there are 12. There never have been 13. And it was Paul who created the offices of leadership to vilify himself as an apostle.

            When does the light go off that Paul was a wolf? How much information does anyone need that this self-proclaimed apostle was a snake? Yahweh has not appointed an apostle since the twelve. Period. Even in the codes you will not find anyone as an apostle. Just prophets and watchmen. The office of apostle has been closed.

            After 300 years of persecutions, most of the apostolic doctrines had been destroyed and lost. They were ultimately replaced with little resistance from the newer believers with a compromise of Mithraic paganism that had been introduced by Paul. It took 300 years for Satan to destroy the early church and persecute Yahweh’s believers so he could implement his own strategy to infiltrate and overpower the church with himself. And he did it as Mithra, and through Mithraism.

            Years ago I kept wondering what the real church was. What did the apostles really preach? What were the real beliefs back then compared to what they are now? What exactly was the early church and what did they believe? It was this journey to find the truth from Yahweh that so much of today’s deceptions would be revealed to me by Him.

            When you start to search and seek Him for answers the most obvious things will start to stand out to you. The most glaring is the obvious distinction that there are two different gospels. The one the apostles taught and the one being preached today in the churches. When you study the early church you realize that the churches today resemble almost nothing like the early ones.

            When you take this even further you will begin to realize that not only do the teachings of today resemble nothing of what the apostles taught, there are two different Saviors presented.

            It was James who led the early Apostles and it was Peter upon whom the church would be built. Yet today you wouldn’t know it or even think it. Walk into any assembly anywhere and the Pauline doctrines are dominant. Why does it matter? Because Peter and Paul are night and day. Peter was an apostle with a mantle from Yahweh to build His church, and he did, but the latter Pauline Christians rejected it and took over Christianity. Paul was a self-proclaimed apostle, whom the apostles rejected as an apostle, but accepted as a brother.

            There were blatant disagreements and arguments between Paul and the Apostles. There were only 12 apostles, not 13. “And on the wall of the city had twelve foundations; and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb” Rev.21:14. In the beginning there were 12, and at the end there are 12. There never have been 13. And it was Paul who created the offices of leadership to vilify himself as an apostle.

            When does the light go off that Paul was a wolf? How much information does anyone need that this self-proclaimed apostle was a snake? Yahweh has not appointed an apostle since the twelve. Period. Even in the codes you will not find anyone as an apostle. Just prophets and watchmen. The office of apostle has been closed.

            After 300 years of persecutions, most of the apostolic doctrines had been destroyed and lost. They were ultimately replaced with little resistance from the newer believers with a compromise of Mithraic paganism that had been introduced by Paul. It took 300 years for Satan to destroy the early church and persecute Yahweh’s believers so he could implement his own strategy to infiltrate and overpower the church with himself. And he did it as Mithra, and through Mithraism.

            Early Christians

            The first believers were called Judahites. At that time, there were two groups of Jews, the Judahites and the Edomites. The Edomites were hybrids and Cain’s seed and had mixed with the Judahite Jews making up more notably the Pharisee branch. Perverting and legalizing the Pentateuch i.e. Old Testament/Torah was of great importance to them and they kept its laws, keeping the sabbath and performing circumcision as a sign of the Covenant. Yet they tortured the legalisms of the law to benefit themselves in social status and wealth.

            Belief in Yahushua as the Messiah was spreading largely among the Judahites who referred to themselves as People of the Way or simply Judahites, and those who adopted the belief in the Messiah and His teachings were also adopted in and referred to as Judahites as well.

            This sect within the Judahites believed Jesus/Yahushua was the promised Messiah. He was not popular and incited much anger from the legalist Scribes and Pharisees because He had tried to make people aware of the real application and intent of the law of the Torah which had been watered down by the infiltrating alien hybrid and Edomite Jews and misapplied putting the people into bondage. The legalists had taken over and led the people into error and oppression while claiming it was the truths in the Torah law. They manipulated it and used it to benefit themselves, and Yahushua tried to lead the people back into the real intent and truths of the Torah provoking much wrath against Him for doing so.

            From the time Moses had received the laws from Yahweh, the entire Jewish social system had been laid down in the Torah. The Torah, among other things, states that all are equal and that no person may oppress or exploit another, that all have the right to be free and to be independent masters of their own fate. It was their Constitution and Bill of Rights.

            For instance, every person is entitled as a matter of right to social security. This means that people are entitled to be supported by the community not only when they fall on hard times but also to maintain their independence as independent breadwinners for their families. For example, the community had to provide backup funds to those who needed them and they had to be provided as and when required. To prevent people being exploited through their need these funds had to be provided without charging interest and such loans were cancelled every seventh year if the borrower had been unable to repay them.

            The country’s wealth and this applies particularly to productive capital, belongs to all equally and had to be shared among everyone. This equal and fair distribution of the community’s wealth was to be updated at regular intervals.

            The role of those who were rich is seen to be that of administering their wealth and money on behalf of and for the community and not that of getting rich at the public’s expense.

            The laws of the Torah (books of Moses) were to be followed and applied by the Judahites as a matter of law in their daily lives. However it was these laws the rich detested and had the intent of the laws changed to suit themselves thereby oppressing the people and getting rich off this oppression. Yahushua tried to reinstate the intent and purpose of the laws and have them applied correctly. This is why the rich and powerful rose up against Him and His teachings of the law.

            After Yahushua died and arose, His apostles continued in the example He had set, observing the feasts, the laws, and the Commandments. Nothing was to be changed. The sacrificial laws had been fulfilled with the ultimate sacrifice of the Son of the Most High, but the other laws of the Torah were to be observed. And this is where churchianity replaces and redefines the law with grace and begins outright disobedience to God’s laws.

            Most in the churches today believe that the Old Covenant, the Laws of the Torah and Moses were done away with after Yahushua arose from the dead. This isn’t true.

            The New Covenant, the New Testament, transformed the Old Testament, it didn’t abolish it. The two reconcile each other. The one doesn’t replace the other. Some commands of the law were transformed by their fulfillment while others were superceded by the Words of Yahweh Himself. This was true in the Old Covenant also when Solomon’s Temple superceded the ancient tabernacle.

            For instance, it was Yahushua’s sacrifice that fulfilled the requirements of and for a sin offering. Other commands were re-prioritized instead of abolished. The Biblical Holy Days/Festivals (especially Passover) weren’t abolished but took on new meanings. If you wonder why we don’t stone people any more it’s because the penalties for our sins were executed already in Yahushua’s death. So as you see, the New Covenant doesn’t abolish the Old Covenant, it upholds it! What still stands is clean and unclean foods, keeping the Sabbath, and other tenants of the laws that the churches have thrown out and ignored over time. As believers it is our responsibility to let the Holy Spirit write the Old Covenant Laws on our hearts so that we know what to obey and how to obey it. He will guide and direct us.

            A lot of people feel a yearning today that they should be celebrating the feasts and moving away from abominable foods. This is by the Holy Spirit’s guidance. Yahweh is trying to lead those who seek Him into the way they should go just as the New Covenant said would happen. We need to heed His Spirit and follow His guidance. It isn’t a messianic vs. protestant vs. catholic thing, it’s just being led by Him and following Him. Divisions and denominations aren’t of Him when we are supposed to be unified as one. Leave the churches if they’re not preaching and teaching His truths and follow Him yourself if you have to.

            Some points to consider:

            · Yahushua’s teaching at the Sermon on the Mount was not a new doctrine. It simply brought to light the true, deeper, spiritual meaning of the Old Covenant commands that He said are still valid.

            ·The entire Old Covenant Law teaches, as Yahushua did, that we are to love Yahweh by keeping His commandments.

            · The Law came through Moses, but grace and truth came through Yahushua Ha Maschiyach.

            · Think of being “Not under Law” as not under legalistic observance of the Old Covenant with its Mosaic commands written in stone.

            · Think of “under grace” as under the renewed covenant with the Mosaic commands written on our hearts by the Spirit who also provides us the strength (grace) we need to overcome the law of sin and death.

            · The New Covenant still has the Old Covenant commands as its foundation. The difference is that now we have His Spirit to write those Laws on our hearts and empower us to obey.

            · The festival commandments are important because in them we rehearse Yahweh’s plan of redemption. Since Yahweh’s plan of redemption isn’t complete there’s still much to learn from the feasts.

            · It was always Yahweh’s intent for us to have His Law (Torah) written on our hearts, thus providing empowerment and motivation from within.

            · Men have always been saved by grace through faith. However, the error of the New Covenant believers at the beginning was in forcing the Gentiles to follow the letter of the Law to EARN salvation and justification apart from the work of FAITH. This matter was settled by the apostles in Jerusalem and as noted in Acts chapter one.

            · Note, when asked how to obtain eternal life, Yahushua didn’t say “Believe in me,” he said obey the commandments [by implication, the Law of Moses]. Which goes beyond the 10 written in stone, there were originally over 600 of them covering social, dietary, financial, and everyday living.

            · It was always Yahweh’s intent that Gentile believers remain ONE with their Jewish brothers. Satan entered and caused the division. The Spirit wants to bring unity. We must come back to HIM as ONE and stop the division and errors that has divided us over the centuries.

            Paul, Satan’s Pawn: The Infiltrator and Deceiver

            Paul, then known as Saul, acting on behalf of the rich Jewish oppressors was a Jewish Edomite Pharisee who persecuted the Christians who were renewing their knowledge of the laws and the application of the laws in their daily lives. Disrupting the status quo, the rich oppressors and legalists would have lost their foothold in making money off the poor if the laws were to change and be followed correctly.

            Paul said that he had had a `vision’ and called himself a
            believer in Yahushua however he preached not for but against the social laws and against the social system of the Torah. He preached against material independence, against social security, against freedom from oppression and exploitation.

            As Edomite Hillel had infiltrated and changed the Talmud to blindside the Jews to accept oppression, Paul infiltrated the sect of the believers and tried to undo what Yahushua and his followers had done, while using the name of Yahweh to do it. Saul had been tutored by Gamaliel, Hillel’s grandson. Both had managed to master the art of deception and lead the people of their time away from the truth of the laws and into oppression.

            Paul preached a political ideology to subvert the people and be able to exploit them without hindrance to the status quo. Under the true laws, exploitation was forbidden, but without the laws being applied, the rich could continue to get rich off of the exploitation of the poor. And that’s what they did.

            The Laws of the Torah gave the people freedom from oppression and exploitation. And every time they wandered away from the laws, they ended up oppressed and exploited, and back into slavery. Much of the same way we as Americans are today. Our government exploits and makes money off the people by unnecessary and inflated taxation, also through exploitive legislation where the rich can become richer, and the poor get poorer. These practices are outlawed in the social system laws of the Torah. Neither has the wealth of America ever been divided out and shared among its people. Our loans are loaded with interest, and there is never forgiveness from unpaid loans. There is freedom in the laws of God while there is slavery, exploitation and manipulation in the laws of man.

            It was Paul’s teachings against the laws of Yahweh that brought him into conflict with the Judahite believers. The entire area of Asia rejected him. In Revelation the church of Ephesus was praised for recognizing false prophets, yet Paul wrote a letter to the Ephesians as if they were his followers. He could get no where with the Judahite Jews, so he concentrated on gaining converts from gentiles (people who are not (Judahite or Israelite) and who presumably knew nothing or little about the laws of the Torah and who would thus be more likely to follow his teachings without arguing about its content or aware of his deceptions.

            Paul’s letters (epistles) are the oldest part of the New Testament. It seems that Paul’s letters were written about 50 AD and the gospels about 70-100 AD. Paul’s letters were never accepted by the early church. The Apostles never mentioned him in their writings, only he includes some of them in his. Yet today our New Testament, configured by a pagan, is dominant with Paul’s teachings.

            What stands out is that no one before Paul wrote such letters and
            taught such things as he did, and no one did so afterwards. His letters give his own point of view and personal ideology and he gives them an authority which they would not otherwise have had by means of a self-proclaimed vision.

            The gospels as a whole relate to the life and death of Yahushua but Paul’s letters seem to be more a vehicle for pronouncements directed against observance of laws ensuring freedom, independence and equality.

            It was the rejected Paul’s teachings that were accepted and placed in dominance after 300 years of persecutions wiped out the early church. Even today the Gentile Christians’ stories about the beginning of Christianity differ from those of the Judahite Christians. It is the versions of the Gentile Christians which were included in the Christian Canon and became official doctrine. The Torah, Feasts, and Commandments were replaced by the laws of laziness and lawlessness.

            There is much to be revealed about Paul and you can read more about how he infiltrated and deceived early believers at But was there even a more hideous agenda to Paul than to subvert people away from the teachings of Yahushua and His apostles?

            The Infiltration of Mithraism into
            Christianity: Two Different Messiahs Portrayed

            Mithraism is the cult of Mithra. It was created on its own virtue to not only worship pagan beliefs and practices, but to pervert and mock future religious practices that Satan knew Yahweh would incorporate into His people.

            It emphasized a personal faith, the conflict of good and evil, and the reward of virtue and punishment of wickedness in the afterlife, the end of the world and the powers of hell. The religion spread from Persia through the Roman Empire from 68 BC until the 3rd century AD, becoming a serious rival to Christianity, and yet those in the churches today are barely even aware of its existence. If you ask most Christians today who Mithra is most wouldn’t have any idea. The church has kept that part of its history silent and hidden when it’s one of the major reasons so many of our early brethren were killed.

            Mithraism is said to have declined in the 4th century AD. but when you look at the overwhelming evidence you’ll soon realize it didn’t go anywhere, it infiltrated and was incorporated into the church and became a large part of Christianity itself. That is why you won’t hear much about it from the church. They don’t want you to hear or understand that Christianity was changed. And that the churches we have today do not resemble the churches of the early believers and what they lived and died for. We’ve been sold down the river of deception for almost 1700 years.

            Satan isn’t always stupid. In fact he’s very clever. Satan’s Mithra was a great and deceptive imitation.

            Who was Mithra? He appealed to everybody and at one time was a dominant god followed by almost every race and nation throughout the history of mankind utilizing many different names such as Buddha, Horus, Krishna, Odin, Quetzalcoatl, Baal, Ra (the sun god), Bel, Marduk, Apollo, and about 15 others. Originating from Persia, he was both god and goddess as a bi-gender god, both male and female. Almost all of these gods who carried Mithra dogma have their birthdays on December 25, the birthday of the “sun.” Even today’s Christians know Jesus’s real birthday isn’t in December but October, yet for the sake of church tradition they go along with it anyway.


            The early church believers were persecuted and killed because they wouldn’t bow to the Sun-god worship and had to go underground to meet on the Sabbath (Saturday), and yet today Christians all over the world meet on Sun-god day to worship who?

            Mithraism was established as far back as the early years after Adam and Eve had left the garden among the pagan nations. In fact the bull motif later adopted, (Mithra is depicted as standing on the bull, in the process of slitting its throat) is a reflection of the Age of Taurus, around 4500-2300 BCE. The sacred bull motif is found in numerous places around the “known world” precisely during the Age of Taurus. The change between the ages of Taurus and Aries is recorded even in the Bible, at Exodus 12, where Moses institutes the sacrifice of the lamb or ram instead of the bull. Mithra’s slaying of the Bull was an act that became as central to Mithraism as was the crucifixion to Christianity.

            The bull represented rebirth, fertility and fecundity, with his blood corresponding to the wine of the mysteries. The sacrifice of the bull was reenacted in the Mithraic baptism, a mystery rite in which the initiates were splattered with the blood. The initiate was then said to have been “born again.” In Mithraism, the slaying of the Heavenly Bull, Mithra is essentially sacrificing himself, in order to save the world: the bull appears to signify the earth or mankind, and the implication is that Mithra, like Christ, overcame the world; but in the early Persian writings Mithra himself is the bull, the god thus sacrificing himself becoming a close mimickry and mockery of the real Messianic Sacrifice to come in which God’s Son would fulfill to redeem mankind.

            Like the vast majority of the ancient gods, Mithra was never a “real person.” In actuality he was originally represented by non-human forms. It is very significant to note that ancient Iranians themselves did not represent the Sun-god in human form in the earliest times, and they used to represent him by means of symbols. In one of the sepulchres of Darius near Naqshi Rustam, Mithra is represented as a round disc (a UFO). Next stage was that of human busts of Sun in later Mithraism. Today we see Mithraic symbols more commonly known as Masonic or Illuminati symbols such as the all-seeing eye or references to the sun and sun-god.

            Mithra paganism has the following in common with the Jesus Christ of today’s churches:

            * Mithra was born on December 25th. Although Jesus was born in October, the churches today Celebrate Mithra’s birthday being conned into believing it was Jesus’ birthday.

            * Mithra’s birth was witnessed by shepherds and by Magi (wisemen) who brought gifts to his sacred birth-cave of the Rock (to mock the wisemen who would bring gifts to Jesus).

            * He was considered a great traveling teacher and master.

            * He had 12 companions or disciples (although in Mithraism this was represented by the 12 astrological signs).

            * He performed miracles.

            * He was buried in a tomb.

            * After three days he rose again (of course no one witnessed this).

            * His resurrection was celebrated every year (although he was never a real person).

            * Mithra was called “the Good Shepherd.”

            * He was considered “the Way, the Truth and the Light, the Redeemer, the Savior, the Messiah.”

            * He was identified with both the Lion and the Lamb.

            * His sacred day was Sunday, “the Lord’s Day,” hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ.

            * Mithra had his principal festival on what was later to become Easter, at which time he was resurrected.

            * His religion had a Eucharist or “Lord’s Supper.”

            * Mithra performed the usual assortment of miracles: raising the dead, healing the sick, making the blind see and the lame walk, casting out devils. As a Peter (son of Petra) he carried keys to the kingdom of heaven. (3)

            * His triumph and ascension to heaven were celebrated at the spring equinox (Easter), when the sun rises toward its apogee.

            In all to the Babylonians (Romans), Mithra became the god of light and truth, the god of mediation between god and man. He was to his worshippers;

            * The creator of life.

            * Mediator between man and the higher gods.

            * God of light.

            * All-seeing one.

            * Guardian of oaths (covenants).

            * Protector of the righteous in this world and also in the next.

            It was the Mithra cult that was the leading rival of Christianity in Rome, and more successful than Christianity for the first four centuries of the “Christian” era. In 307 A.D., the emperor officially designated Mithra “Protector of the Empire.” Some resemblances between Christianity and Mithraism were so close that even St. Augustine declared the priests of Mithra worshipped the same deity as he did.

            Mithra was born on December 25, called “Birthday of the Unconquered Sun,” which was incorporated into the church in the 4th century A.D. as the birthday of Christ.

            Before returning to heaven, Mithra celebrated a Last Supper with his twelve disciples, who represented the twelve signs of the zodiac. In memory of this, his worshippers partook of a sacramental meal of bread marked with a cross This was one of the seven Mithraic sacraments, the models for the Christians’ seven sacraments . It was called mizd, latin missa, in other words, English mass. Mithra’s image was buried in a rock tomb, the same sacred cave that represented his mother’s womb. He was withdrawn from it and said to live again.

            Like early Christianity, Mithraism was an ascetic, anti-female religion. Its priesthood consisted of celibate men only . Was Paul a Mithraic priest?

            Women were forbidden to enter Mithraic temples. The women of Mithraic families had nothing to do with the men’s cult, but attended services of the Great Mother in their own temples of Isis, Diana or Juno. Anahita was the Mother of Waters, traditional spouse of the solar god whom she bore, loved and swallowed up. She was identified with the Anatolian Great Goddess Ma. Mithra was naturally coupled with her, as her opposite, a spirit of fire, light and the sun.. Her “element,” water, overwhelmed the world in the primordial flood, when one man built an ark and saved himself, together with his cattle, according to Mithraic myth.

            What began in water would end in fire, according to the Mithraic eschatology. The great battle between the forces of light and darkness in the Last Days would destroy the earth with its upheavals and burnings. Virtuous ones who followed the teachings of the Mithraic priesthood would join the spirits of light (Illuminati) and be saved. Sinful ones who followed other teachings would be cast into hell with Ahriman and the fallen angels.

            Where others fall short believing Christianity mimmicked and copied Mithraism, they cannot see that it was Mithraism itself that was created to mimmick and copy the coming Messiah and church. But even worse what happened was that Christianity would then incorporate Mithraic paganisms perverting the truth faith.

            Led by whom? Paul. Paul quotes from Mithraic sculptures when he cites, “And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ” I Cor. 10:4 Paul often quoted from Mithraic dogma, the Hillel inspired “Mithraic” Talmud, or misquoted the Old Testament. And yet the church ignores all the warning signs that he wasn’t whom or what he portrayed himself to be.

            During the fourth century it was the church itself led by Mithraic Constantine that incorporated Mithraic beliefs and doctrines into the church, making them doctrines and traditions. Following 300 years of persecutions, there weren’t many early Christian believers left to protest and resist the intrusion and takeover of Mithraism into the church. They had all died refusing to accommodate it.

            Constantine the Great was an avid Mithra worshiper and his devoted mother Helena, a great worshipper of Ishtar, ‘My Lady’ the Queen of Heaven. It was Constantine who transferred most of the doctrines and tenants of Mithraism, as well as the shrines and temples into the Christian Church after his ‘conversion’ to Christianity in 312A.D. He didn’t abandon his occult practices after his conversion, he brought them into the church and then had the church write new Scriptures to incorporate them into the church doctrines.

            In fact most of the Christian churches were built over the top of shrines and temples of Mithraism. In 1954 when rebuilding the bombed ruins of St. Paul’s cathedral, another shrine of the cult god Mithra was unearthed in the ruins.

            To show the validity of this change over without conversion, consider this worship decree issued by the Emperor Constantine in the year 321 AD., which was some nine years after his supposed conversion.

            Constantine, Emperor Agustus, to Helidus: “On the venerable day of the sun let the magistrates, and the people residing in cities rest, let all workshops be closed. In the country, however, persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits”.

            Note here the day mentioned; ‘The venerable day of the sun’, the special day dedicated to the cult sun-god, Mithra, the first day of the week, SUNDAY! This was the first recorded blue Sunday law. In short, Constantine had never given up worshipping on his beloved ‘venerable day of the sun’, the day totally dedicated to the sun-god Mithra, the ‘son of the sun-god’.

            Constantine threw out the truths of the early church and assimilated them with Mithraism, thereby creating two Messiahs: The God of Mithra, which would become the dominant deity of the church then, and still is today, and the God of the early believers. Which one are you following today?

            Mystery Babylon The Great

            I have been stating for the past 2 years that Paul was a government agent infiltrating Christianity because I kept feeling led into that area. I just couldn’t prove it. I couldn’t find the missing link until I stumbled on Mithraism. I had seen it before but had ignored it all together as a clever imitation by Satan to confuse men. Until I recently took a closer look at it and realized it was more than attempt to confuse men, it had completely overpowered and replaced Christianity. And that was the link I had been looking for and kept overlooking.

            Mithraism operated back in the early church days the way the Masons do today. It was an elite cult for the men of high social circles and a god of the military forces. At the time of Christ it had permeated the Roman government. Mithra was the god of light, just as the god of Masonry is today. Saul-Paul’s father was a Roman government official. There’s no doubt he was involved in the sect of Mithraism, and having Jewish/Edomite blood, Saul-Paul had established himself in the sect of the Pharisees of the Jews. He had dual citizenship among the Romans and the Jews.

            Paul was the instrument to merge Mithraism with Christianity and overthrow the original church the apostles had built. Now before you scream heresy, let me assure you if you read this through you will realize the deception of the churches today. If you’re celebrating Christmas and Easter and celebrating the Sabbath on Sunday then you need to read this. No, I’m not a Seventh Day Adventist or any religion, I hold to none. I seek only the Father and the truth in the Most High God.

            When we study the future Blue Beam Project that is going to be used to bring the Antichrist to power, you can’t overlook the striking similarities of Mithraism. Is Maitreya (another name for the coming Antichrist) going to be the modern day Mithra? Seems like it.

            Remember, as I just stated above one of the earliest Persian symbols for Mithra was a flying disc (UFO) and an all-seeing eye (symbol of the NWO).

            Traditions of Man

            In retrospect, it would have been a very easy switch from Mithraism to Constantine’s form of ‘so called’ Christianity, as their doctrines and tenants were very similar. Only the name of the god Mithra had to be changed to Christ, and the day of worship to be changed from Saturday to Sunday. There was also a little rearranging in other things, but all in all the amalgamation was relatively easy because most of the doctrines and teachings of Mithra were transferred and assimilated into the church. Not to make it easier for the pagans to accept Christianity, but to infiltrate and pollute Christianity with a false messiah.

            In his edict of Milan, issued in 313AD., a year after his supposed conversion, toleration and equality were proclaimed to other cults and religions within the state, however anyone who persisted in observing any other day than their ‘venerable day of the sun’, the state promoted day, were actively persecuted, therefore any Sabbath keeper had to go underground.

            The seven Mithraic sacraments were adopted (retained in Catholicism to this day) and Christmas and Easter, Mithraic holidays were also brought in.

            The female companion cult to this male’s only religion was a dedication to the fertility goddess, Ishtar, the Queen of heaven, or Magnus Mater. The moon was her planet as in Moon day, our Monday, as the next largest orb in our heavens. At the first full moon of spring in the northern hemisphere, that is at the end of our March, in Babylonian times the pagan son of the sun-god, Demuzi, or Tammuz, the forerunner of Mithra, descended into the nether world, to be rescued by his mother/lover, Ishtar, the fertility goddess, and on being rescued participated in an act of human procreation. Rabbits and eggs were symbols of this fertility rite. Little round cakes, the equivalent of our hot cross buns, were also baked in honour to this Ishtar, the Queen of Heaven. The evidence of this is found in Jeremiah’s time

            Jer.7:18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger. See also Jer.44: 17-19.

            These practices were merged into the church to where today we have a combination of both the pagan Mithraism and Queen of heaven worship via the Protestant Easter and the Catholicism celebration of Mary.

            In the northern hemisphere the winter solstice falls on December 22/23, thus making this time the sun’s most weakest point of the year, so it was then reckoned to be the time of its yearly death. But then after this point the sun then became stronger, so the ancients considered that it was the time of rebirth and hence declared a few days after as being the birthday of the sun (son), that is, Mithra’s birthday! The day chosen being December 25, the most important date on the Babylonian calendar year. If you are celebrating Christmas, it is not the Lord Jesus’s birthday you are celebrating but Mithra’s. And the argument “the Lord knows my heart” won’t work either because Yahweh hates the traditions of men! You are worshipping another god, and another gospel. Why? Because you’re following after the traditions of man and ignoring Yahweh’s Required Feasts altogether.

            Mithra’s cave-temple on the Vatican Hill was seized by Christians in 376 A.D.. Christian bishops of Rome pre-empted even the Mithraic high priest’s title of Pater Patrum, which became Papa,(or Pope) First there was Mithra copying the coming Messiah. Now, we have Christianity taking over Mithra, copying and assimilating the pagan aspects of Mithraism. Both would become assimilated into each other creating a false and delusional mystery cult religion. And not only that, what today is located on Vatican Hill? The Vatican. There are 7 hills in Rome, and the Vatican was built on top of a Mithra temple, just as other churches had been built on top of ancient Mithra temples.

            And we still have it in today’s secret occult societies. The sun became the mysterious ‘all seeing eye of Mithras’, and astrology prediction became an important part of the cult. We see this even today with Illuminati symbols of the all-seeing eye and their dependency of astrology. What the church dropped, the occult kept. We have Mithra in both our church and government. The all-seeing eye is a symbol on our dollar bill.

            Many of the Roman Emperors who embraced this mystery cult god included; Nero, Commodus, Septimus, Aurelain, Julian the Apostate, and Dioclethian, to name only a few who were all faithful followers of Mithra. For it was he who promised to be the ‘Protector of the Faithful’, which would be very important to a soldier, and also as a ‘guide to the souls’ of men. Thus these Emperors added divine names to their own, such a ‘Dias’ or devout, ‘Felix’ or blessed, ‘Invictus’ or invincible, to make legitimate their claims of ruling by divine right. A practice the Roman Catholic papacy would adopt.

            Naturally the true and faithful to Yahushua could not possibly bow to this form of sun-worship, so they were persecuted. Do you understand that? The Early Christians would not bow to the sun-god yet today’s Christians are bowing every Sunday to it!

            Complete Counterfeit Christianity

            Most people who dig into the history of religions have it completely backwards. No surprise. But the truth is out there for those who seek it from the Lord. When Adam and Eve fell, the only hope mankind had was to be redeemed. And from the time of the fall, Yahweh knew what He would do to redeem it.

            Adam was told how mankind would be redeemed. That the Messiah was to be born of a virgin to become, the Lord of the Covenant, the ‘Lamb slain from the foundation of the world’, who was to die and be in the grave for three days and then be resurrected. Adam knew the attributes of God and His plan of salvation and was told all this by God Himself and it was his bounded duty to pass it on verbally to all his offspring, and they on to theirs, so that by the time of the Assyrians, all these gospel truths were well known. Abraham knew them all well!

            Hasn’t it always stood true that God will do nothing lest He reveal it unto His servants the prophets’. . Amos 3:7?

            We know Satan heard Yahweh’s plan of redemption for mankind as He revealed it to Adam. Because he set about to prepare the biggest counterfeits he could come up with to negate Yahweh’s plans! Satan had plenty of time to prepare, and put into motion the best counterfeits he could come up with, so that when the real messiah did come, no one would recognize Him for the real Messiah that He was.

            It was the pagan cult of mystery that became a complete and blatant counterfeit piece of work that Satan had perfected in substituting the ‘son of the sun-god’, Mithra, for our Lord and Savior the Lord Jesus Christ, the only true Lord of light and truth, the only true Mediator, and the only true God of the Holy Covenant. It was truly one great counterfeit job, and the results are still with us to this day.

            Today there are many who claim Jesus Yahushua was a copy of Mithra when it is the other way around. It was Mithra who was created and set up through every pagan religion throughout the nations to mimmick what Yahweh would do.

            This mimmickry has traveled through the ages into even our churches of today. It never went anywhere, just disguised itself and assimilated as the Jesus of the Bible into our churches. Are they really worshipping Yahushua?

            What does the Bible call today’s churches? MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT , THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. (Rev. 17:5). Babylon is America, harlots are the churches. They have prostituted the truth for lies.

            If you are worshiping the Jesus of the churches, you are worshipping another Savior. If you are celebrating the traditions and dogma of the churches today you are worshipping another gospel. How can I say this? Because God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. And if you are not following the example both He and His Apostles set, then you are not following HIM. If you are not celebrating His feasts, keeping His Torah laws and observing His commandments you are not HIS but the clever counterfeit of the ages himself, deceptive Mithra i.e. Lucifer.

            Most churches today justify Pauline teachings as to why they believe what they do. Paul was a false apostle. And when you realize that everything changes. You can get back into the truth of what faith in Yahweh really is instead of the lies you’ve been spoon fed from Paul. The law never ended, sure the cumbersome aspects of it were replaced and nullified, but there’s more to the law than most realize. They simple claim the law was replaced by grace and sweep it under the rug without realizing it’s Yahweh Himself they’re sweeping under the rug. Jesus fulfilled the law He didn’t cancel it or replace it with Pauline doctrines.

            There was no stop in God’s plan for mankind. In the Book of Revelation it even says that in the New Jerusalem people will be celebrating the feasts. So why aren’t you now? Why is the majority of churchianity following Mithra traditions and feasts rather than Yahweh’s?

            What’s been lost is for people to question why they believe what they do. They follow church after church instead of just seeking Yahweh Himself. They blindly accept what their pastors and leaders tell them because it’s just what they’ve done all their lives and to think otherwise goes against the brainwashing of the religious establishment. The fear of questioning is put into them instead of following the commands to be Berean and search the Scriptures for ourselves. You can’t protect yourself from error if you don’t seek Yahweh Himself for the truth. Man should never replace Him. To place your pastor as your teacher instead of Yahweh you are bordering on idolatry. Because we are to seek Him, not man.

            We have gone from generation to generation in Spiritual limbo because man has replaced Yahweh in every church. Doctrines, theologies and ideologies, have all replaced HIM.

            No I am not messianic, or whatever title of religion there is out there. I hold no religious affiliation. My only affiliation is in Yahweh. The Messianics would do well to realize they don’t have to spend all their time trying to tell everyone “what Paul really meant” and just admit he was a false apostle. Then they wouldn’t have to waste so much of their time combating his contradictions.

            Mithraism never went anywhere. It is alive and well today. Most will embrace Mithra as the False Prophet when he arrives with the name of “Jesus and Maitreya.” He will even look as the pictures of Jesus we’ve seen. He will mimmick and copy him so well it will be the deception of the ages to overcome. You’ve been forewarned. And the Beast Prophets in place today as pastors in our congregations and churches will embrace him and declare him as the son of God. And they will work in collusion with this False Prophet to deceive the world into worshipping the Antichrist as the Father, as God Himself.

            Most of the churches today are teaching false doctrines and being led by false shepherds.

            Get out of the deception. Get back into Yahweh.


            (See, Francis Legge, Forerunners and the Rivals of Christianity at 2, 271; S. Angus, The Mystery-Religions at 168)
            (See, Salomon Reinach, Orpheus at 73)
            (See, Homer Smith, Man and His Gods at 1294.
            (See, S.H. Hooke, The Siege Perilous at 89; Franz Cumont, The Mysteries of Mithra at 1605.
            (See, E.O. James, The Ancient Gods at 250)
            (See, Homer Smith, Man and His Gods at 130, 201).
            (See, Francis Legge, Forerunners and Rivals of Christianity at 2, 261)
            .(See, Wolfgang Lederer, The Fear of Women at 36)
            9. (See, Franz Cumont, Oriental Religions in Roman Paganism at 54, 65)10.
            (See, Franz Cumont, The Mysteries of Mithra at 138)
            (See, John Holland Smith, The Death of Classical Paganism at 146)
            .(See, Homer Smith, Man and His Gods at 252)

            • JesusTheKing says:

              Have you always kept the 10 commandments perfectly? Are you still sacrificing the best ‘animal’ at the end of the week for sins? Yes, God is still the same, but the new covenant was given for a reason.

          • motomojo says:

            Yahushua, Jesus said, “did not I call 12 of you disciples, yet one of you is a devil?”

            He called Judas one of His own, even though He knew Judas was a devil from the serpent seedline and would betray him.

            Just as Paul is from the serpent seedline, and has infiltrated Christianity to corrupt it.

            King James was a homosexual mason, 33rd degree. He hired Sir Francis Bacon to translate the KJV. Sir Francis Bacon, also a 33rd degree mason, was also known as Shakespeare.

            The Pauline doctrines would become dominant in the New Testament. Why? Because Paul was one of them. Steeped into Mithraism and the occult teachings of Rome, he had successfully infiltrated the early church.

            “Has He not said?” You can hear the hissssss in Pauline teachings as he rewrites what the apostles taught who had walked and talked with Jesus, Yahushua.

            Books Written by Paul and his ‘disciples’

            Mark, Luke, Acts, Romans, I & 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Phillippians, Colossians, 1&2 Thessalonians, 1&2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon, (and no one knows who wrote Hebrews).

            Paul’s disciples were not Yahushua’s Disciples and Apostles! The Names of Yah’s were…

            Peter, James, John, Andrew, Philip, Thomas, Bartholomew, Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, Simon and Judas the brother of James (not the Judas Iscariot who betrayed Yahushua). Now who look replaces Judas, the one who betrayed Yahushuah….

            Act 1:26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

            Matthias replaced Judas Iscariot….NOT PAUL!

            And who are Mark, Luke, Timothy, etc…? They were NOT Disciples of Yahushua they were disciples of Paul’s! And even they LEFT PAUL and abandoned him because after following him for a while, realized what an apostate liar he was! Don’t think so? Read the KJV! Satan doesn’t even hide it, it’s all right there for folks to read who will bother to do so!

            It’s even Luke who declares the qualifications to even be an apostle! They were NOT apostles and NEITHER WAS PAUL! He didn’t qualify to be an apostle because PAUL didn’t walk or even know Yahushua when He was alive on earth. A Qualification to be an APOSTLE!

            Time to Wake Up my dear!!

            • Nathan says:

              It seems that you believe in Yahushua as the messiah and love torah. Is this correct? I too love Yahushua and the torah. I wonder though, how is it you know that James and Paul were the leaders of the first century believers? Is it from the book of acts. If you believe that part of the book, why not the rest. Paul was not against torah. May I suggest re-examining his writings through something other than greek lenses? Paul was hebrew through and through and he loved the torah. He states it very plainly. Just something for you to consider. Though I thought this was all about the coming of the Mahdi? Seems we are a bit sidetracked.

      • Cary says:

        Be VERY careful, Motomojo…

        I’d like to ask you to clarify a point, please. So… without links, or long, meandering discussions about Illiminati or Jewish Cabals or whatever… please, tell us your own belief system.

        Are you, as you see it, a Christian? (As defined as “a follower of Christ, saved by grace and a believer through faith?”)

        Please respond to that with a simple “yes” or “no.” So far, I have yet to be able to determine what it is that you claim to believe, other than some “conspiracy theory” ideas about Jews taking over the world.

        Are you an atheist? Are you a “former Jew?” Are you a Scientologist? Are you a member of the “Church of Bob?” As briefly and concisely as possible, please share with us what your core belief truly is.

        For my own part, I am a Christian. I am not a “baptist” or a “presbyterian” or a “catholic” or any other subgroup… and I actually reject the tendency of Christendom to “segregate” ourselves into cliques in that manner. I believe that God is real, that He exists at a level beyond our limited ability to comprehend.

        I believe that we are incapable of comprehending all of God at once, which is why we understand him as (at LEAST) three “persons.” Our limited minds simply cannot grasp the entirety of God as He truly exists.

        I believe that we were given free will, because that is the only way in which we can choose to follow Him, and that’s what he created us to do. But this means that we can also choose to oppose him… and that opposition, which we call “evil,” is the unavoidable side-effect of our having free will.

        I believe that we are all flawed, and that we cannot “earn our way” into God’s good graces. But I believe that God has given us a way to be given the GIFT (which we call “grace”) of forgiveness of our flaws and errors. But this isn’t automatic, we have to willfully accept this grace.

        I believe that everything was created by God… that is, God isn’t part of the universe, but rather than universe was created by God, and if anything, may be considered to be a “subset” of God. God created everything, including all the physical rules that govern our universe – including all those which we have never even imagined might exist yet. (What we sometimes call the “supernatural” isn’t “supernatural” at all… these things are merely part of the unified nature of the universe, as created by God, which we, as of yet, do not comprehend.)

        This is complicated, and none of us truly understand it. In my case, I find it’s easiest for me to comprehend God with an analogy. I think of God as an author, and the universe as a novel which God has created.

        In this analogy, we are all characters in this novel. Ask any novelist, and he’ll tell you that his characters must act in ways consistent with the rules the author has set out for them.

        The plot may have been planned out from the beginning, but the details change, organically, as the story is written. The author knows the entire story, beginning to end, but the story itself still flows in “in-story real time.” The author can rewrite sections, should He choose to, but generally lets the story unwind as it will, naturally, based upon the rules which the author has created for this story’s universe.

        To an author, the novel he writes is clearly not real. And while God is “more real” than we are, we are much more real than a character in a book written by a man is. So don’t be confused… this is only a model… an analogy. But it fits pretty well, I think. If it is of no help to you, feel free to disregard it. But this is how I try to understand God, as well as I’m able to.

        That’s a fairly basic description of my own belief system.

        I’d like to hear you describe, IN YOUR OWN WORDS, your own belief system. Will you share that with us?

        • motomojo says:

          Belief systems are for lazy people who don’t want to spend the time seeking to KNOW.

          so to answer simply I do not have a belief system
          I prefer to know things as apposed to believing things.

          and yes I am aware that belief is associated with Faith and all I can say to that is BUNK!

          the attitude of faith is the very opposite of clinging to belief
          But the attitude of faith is to let go, and become open to truth, whatever it might turn out to be.
          Faith is a state of openness or trust
          In other words, a person who is fanatic in matters of religion, and clings to certain ideas about the nature of God and the universe,
          becomes a person who has no faith at all.

          • Cary says:

            That statement is nonsense.

            Every human being has a belief system, just like we have a system of perception and a digestive system and so forth. A “system” is simply “a group of interacting, interrelated, or interdependent elements forming a complex whole.”

            And every human being has beliefs. NO HUMAN BEING CAN KNOW EVERYTHING.

            Have you ever been to Taipei? I’m going to guess the answer is “no.” (If you have been there, simply substitute any other place you’ve never been to!) Yet, you believe that it exists. You cannot “know” this if you haven’t been there, yet you do believe it (and correctly so, of course).

            It is literally impossible for every human being to “know” (ie, from personal experience) everything that they need to in order to function in society. We simply have to accept some thing without direct experiential knowledge.

            The combination of things you know, and things you believe, form what we call a “belief system.”

            “Faith” is also part of a belief system. I believe that the moon is made primarily of silicates. I do not know this for a fact, because (a) I’ve never measured the entire moon myself, and (b) I acknowledge that the only things we really can know about the moon at this point are the size, the mass, and the composition of the surface. The most reasonably explanation is that the moon is primarily composed of silicates. But those things that we DO know, are things I haven’t personally experienced. I believe these things based upon the fact that they’ve been stated by those who have measured them, and I see a high probability that what they’ve told me aren’t lying.

            My “belief system” is entirely unified… consisting of those things I know from personal experience, those things I believe on authority (like the composition of the moon, or the existence of Buenos Aires), and those things I take on faith.

        • motomojo says:

          And with that I am done my pearls have become filthy casting them before swine.

          I wish you well and hope that at some point you start seeking truth.

          • Prophecy Gal says:

            Dear Motomojo:

            You state that you want me to KNOW the truth, Jesus said, “I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, NO one comes to the Father but by me.” John 14:6

            Jesus also said when confronted by Pilate when He was asked if He were a King, “You are right in saying I am a King. In fact, for this reason I was born, and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.” John 18:7

            Who do you believe Jesus Christ (Yahushua) to be?

            Man complicates the simple message of love and atonement God sends.

            • Prophecy Gal says:

              Your extrapolations on Mithraism are interesting, however, have long ago been deemed unsubstantiated by many scholars.
              Again, man tries to complicate God’s simple message that both Paul and Peter embraced which was Jesus as God and Savior, who for the forgiveness of our sins, died on a Roman cross, and on the third day rose again, to prove that He is who He said He was.

              “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in Him would not perish but have everlasting life”. John 3:16

              • Prophecy Gal says:

                “Because of lack of textual evidence for early Mithraism, there is no way to positively assert that the ideas that seem to correspond to Christianity were ever taught prior to the second century A.D. after all the Christian texts that make up the New Testament had been in widespread circulation. In fact, most scholars take a dim view of that idea. Dr. Edwin Yamauchi dismisses this hypothesis in stating “Those who seek to adduce Mithra as a prototype of the risen Christ ignore the late date for the expansion of Mithraism to the West.”(cf. M.J. Vermaseren, Mithras, The Secret God, 1963, p. 76).”3

  113. markthearrow says:

    …the Sun shall not smite thee by day, nor the Moon by night. The Lord shall preserve thee from all evil, He shall preserve thy soul. …
    Psalm 121. One man’s Chaos is another man’s Plan not understood. Be still and know.

  114. Lois Buerer says:

    I have one message for those enemies of Israel – BRING IT ON!!! I believe God will fight for the apple of His eye and Israel will experience miracles such as was seen in the days of Gideon. They will not be defeated. Praise God’s holy name!!

  115. Ali Adams says:


    I hope you are not offended to know that you are already Muslim (one who is in total submission to the Will of God), perhaps more so than 70% of “casual” Muslims.

    To confirm that there are other beings out there, God Almighty says in Quran 42:29
    أعوذ بالله من الشيطن الرجيم
    بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
    وَمِنْ ءَايَٰتِهِۦ خَلْقُ ٱلسَّمَٰوَٰتِ وَٱلْأَرْضِ وَمَا بَثَّ فِيهِمَا مِن دَآبَّةٍۢ ۚ وَهُوَ عَلَىٰ جَمْعِهِمْ إِذَا يَشَآءُ قَدِيرٌۭ
    And one of His signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth and what He has spread forth in both of them of creatures (must crawl or walk on 2 or 4 legs on the surface of their planets as per Quran 24:45); and if He wish it He is All-Powerful to gather them together (so they meet each other).

    You are spot on on that God Almighty has endowned Man with freewill and unlike angels or animals.

    God says inQuran 91:7-10
    أعوذ بالله من الشيطن الرجيم
    بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
    وَنَفْسٍۢ وَمَا سَوَّىٰهَا
    As to the soul and Him Who made it perfect,
    فَأَلْهَمَهَا فُجُورَهَا وَتَقْوَىٰهَا
    He inspired it to understand what is right and what is wrong;
    قَدْ أَفْلَحَ مَن زَكَّىٰهَا
    Will indeed be successful who he purifies it,
    وَقَدْ خَابَ مَن دَسَّىٰهَا
    And indeed will fail he who corrupts it.

    And finally Imam Ali bin Abi Talib (greetings to him) says:

    “God has created Angel with reasoning power and without desire nor anger and has created Animal with desire and anger but without reasoning power, while He created Man with all three.

    So if Man allows his desire or anger to control his reasoning power he then he would become worse than an animal, but if he controls his desire and anger with his reasoning power he would become better than an angel.”

    Please see my free booklet “Soul and Spirit” at